Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console

[TrekMD]

The more learn about it, the more interested I become. 

[hamie96]

I think it's gonna have a lot of great games that really need to be on carts to seem like they're in the right place.  Assaulter, for instance.  It looks like a Neo Geo or suped-up SNES game but plays on Androids and other systems.  Shovel Knight comes to mind.

Why would any indie developer bother with the additional cost? What sort of audience would they gain that they wouldn't already have from PC or console? I highly doubt we'll see indie games ported to the system (aside from maybe a handful).

It reminds me how much of a waste of resources it truly is to play a NES or Sega Master System game on a $700 game system at hundreds of watts.  I don't think it's wrong to get all of your favorite systems emulated on the console you just bought.  Especially if you replace the last one you bought with whatever just came out.  It can seem wasteful to get one of those new machines IF you only plan to download retro.

That's why devices such as Android phones and GCW-Zero exist. I mean even my smartphone from 2010 can emulate Genesis and SNES games. Most people probably don't want to spend another $150-$200 on a machine just to play classic games when they already have a PC or phone that is capable of doing so already.

   
I'm going for it when it comes out regardless and would like to see some old company names from back in the day.  Maybe Konami or Capcom, or even Sega could pop out some programs for it!

Never going to happen. Why should they waste their time on this machine that'll inevitably have a small fanbase. The opportunity cost of developing for the system is far too great to be an option. It's far more likely homebrew enthusiasts will flock to the system more than anything.

Just look at the Ouya!

The Ouya is considered to be a massive failure and horrible disappointment and is used consistently on why Kickstarter isn't a perfect platform. It massively under performed in every area and they've already discontinued the product after only a year after release.

Overall, the more and more I read about this new console, the less intrigued I am and the more worried I feel this will end up becoming just like the Ouya.

[AmigaJay]

The Ouya is considered to be a massive failure and horrible disappointment and is used consistently on why Kickstarter isn't a perfect platform. It massively under performed in every area and they've already discontinued the product after only a year after release.

Overall, the more and more I read about this new console, the less intrigued I am and the more worried I feel this will end up becoming just like the Ouya.

I agree with most of what you said, although regarding the Ouya, i don't agree at all it was a massive failure, the internet is a massively blinkered place for slurring stuff they don't know much about.

For starters the Kickstarter was a huge success and was one of the biggest totals to date, the product arrived albeit a little after schedule, certainly not too late like a lot of products on there who seemingly dont get slagged off because they aren't as much in the public eye.

Machine wise, yes the OS was a bit buggy to start with, but they have added lots improvements, again something other android devices don't bother with and leave you to suffer.
Game wise there is over 1000 games now, sure some are crap, but there is a lot of gems in there, and quite a few hit the Ouya first before ported to Play store, PS4, Wii U etc

And of course alot of people like me still use it for streaming/emulator use, its a cheap set top box and in no way a failure of that kind, the company is still going 2 years after release, they are branching into licensing the Ouya OS into China and other markets and still receive $million dollar contracts for doing so....not bad for a Kickstarter campaign.

[Greyfox]

They way I see it, firstly agreed with both of you nearly all accounts, but regarding big software companies been if true, propositioned to encourage them to develope and release old or brand new title to the RVS are very unlikely because they operate within massive return on development costs, promotion and a distribution newt work which I'm afraid no matter how much this makes via its kickstarter can achieve. Ouya is a perfect example, claiming over million dollars in donations to produce there machine, yet none of the big software houses have Released games on it?

Remember the GameGadget fiasco? Promised to have exclusive sega content and many other big names attached to it? Other than a pile in emulator with a granted permission to include megadrive games, done time and time again? On other plug and play handhelds? So if there are claims that this console will be different in securing games from capcom, sega, or even sink are as far fetched a reality of cows jumping the moon, the reality is purely based at aiming for people willing to dev for the machine for notoriety and entry which could bear some superb games but will be contained within a small circle of devs decided, remember a game needs a musician, an pixel or 3d artist, a programmer and PR person and possible a traditional art to produce box art and the likes and can't solely rely on RVS to do that for them.

I'm unsure what type of market research was done or what they feel the finances they've formed in projected awareness and promotion in America, Europe or Japan to encourage game teams to jump on? If they feel America is their kept market than I have little hope, people are great, one minute it's a great idea and will go far, the next, hmm I don't really want to invest in another console with wealth of machines out there already plus the games are a bit pricey etc.. So it really boils down to the way it's promoted, marketed and to who, and if I'm been honest, the retro community is known for stabbing its friendly' in the back. This really does need thinking outside the box.

[Papa]

I wouldn't compare a machine that you plug into your TV to a handheld phone or android.  Granted, my sons JXD can plug into an HDMI port, it isn't that great on a big screen.  Most phones are big squint developers for me.  I scrunch and wrinkle my face up just trying to decipher what is going on on handhelds and androids.  I never bought into the XBOX One, PS3, PS4, Wii-U, 3DS, PSP, Vita,etc..  I went through several modded 360's and after they all RRODed on me I sunk back into my original modded XBOX and DC, GC, PS2, Atari, Genesis, etc.. So, I would really enjoy a new solid state cart system like back in the day.  I think there is enough out there to keep people into it whether big companies jump on or not.

 I don't consider things a success based on how many units they sell, but on how many good games are out on it and how much fun I have with it.  I like the Game.com.  I didn't like how blurry the first one was, but got a front-lit screen pocket pro a while back and really enjoyed Resident Evil and a few of the arcade ports.  I also used it for a phone-book and calender. 

A lot of people have said 'Never gonna happen' about this system.  Have you listened to the hours of interviews with the guy making it?  He is talking about a release next year and has the shell, controllers, title game and, from what he says, many game makers on board.  It's going to happen.  It's not kinda maybe gonna happen, it's coming out. 

If it's just a homebrewers plaything (I could use it) it would be sad.  I think that smaller game companies could use it to secure more profits from existing android titles, or sequel up what is already successful. 

How much do you know about what the people really want?  Do you spend your days checking out market info on games or how many sell or what people like.  This guy does.  He has a lot of friends in the business and has expressed their desire to have certain games on solid state cartridges.  He's not just coming out of left field with an idea that can't stand. 

The Ouya shook up the big companies enough to have half of each of the biggest companies displays at the last CES full of indie developer games that are downloads for the expensive systems.  They locked it out of it's launch year CES and had security block them with trucks.  I don't have one, because I've already owned enough JXD systems and Androids to know that most android downloads aren't for me. 

This idea may have a big following with developers for it's security.  I've seen downloads of a thousand Android games all at once.  I'm sure most of it was illegit copies that should have been paid for.  Companies know that they lose a ton of money on piracy and may want a cartridge that's hard to duplicate or copy on a system with no DLC or internet! 

I don't know that there would be an additional cost.  The carts may be produced with internal MicroSD or some proprietary low cost chip and not be much, or any more than publishing through hosts.  They have already stated that a DevCart is coming out that will work through a PC, so it does seem like indie/homebrew might be their primary source. 

I don't think the system is coming out to emulate older systems games.  They might, but I don't think that is what they intend to do.  Neo Geo would be wonderful, but that's really because the X system didn't do so great.  New games and popular retro style games like Assaulter and Shovel Knight are said to be the focus.  He said that it could do games like old 8-bit up to PS1 style, with 16-bit being the sweet spot. 

I think it would help to back people away from the scoop and grab piracy that happens so much in emulation today,  secure profits for indie and homebrew developers (maybe rehashes from existing companies), give users a long lasting system with no DLC or internet requirements, and be a super fun cart player!! 

[AmigaJay]

Yeah i have no doubt this guy has done his research, but its always different from a questionaire to someone actually laying down £200/$200 for something.
Again i do want this to work, but as of now its to imagine all pieces and enough support happening, plus the indie games have to be a decent enough quality, no offense to the launch bundled game as i know its not finished, but it certainly needs to improve quality wise if thats going to launch alongside the machine.

As for carts, if its sd or micro sd then it would a major disapointment and would mean a big no from me, the whole idea or so i thought would be the games would come on a rom cartridge, i.e instant loading games, no loading from slow flash memory, anyway as the images we have seen im pretty sure its the latter.

[zapiy]

The website is now live, Developers can now make contact with them to release their games.

http://www.retrovgs.com/home.html

[Shadowrunner]

Cool, lots of info on their site. Really looking forward to the KS and seeing what kind of interest there is.

[TrekMD]

Cool to see the site is up.  Nice way to stay updated. 

[Greyfox]

It is a nice looking site and a great way for everyone to get involved, I wish them the very best with this whole enterprise and that they get the people on board to support such an ambitious project.

really looking forward to the games set to appear on this. They have as good a chance as anyone.

[Shadowrunner]

Just saw this on their website!

When is the Kickstarter Happening?
We are launching the RETRO VGS Kickstarter campaign the week of September 14, 2015.

Only a month to go

[zapiy]

Interesting development... @ReadRetro

[Shadowrunner]

Here is the latest info from their facebook account.

Edits are being made so re-reading this might be a good thing.
Hey All,
I wanted to come in here and address the RVGS pricing issue. It really all comes down to what gamers want to play on RVGS. For us, gamers ourselves, we want RVGS to have the ability to play all these incredible larger Retro inspired titles that are hitting the market these days, and will continue to hit the market for years and years to come. And play these games on cartridges vs. disposable digital. We also want to see what developers can do to create their own custom effects utilizing the FPGA/Arm combo we are supplying. This chipset will give them unlimited potential to do things we've never seen before in a game.
If all you want to do is play games up to a limited file size, like 50 MB for example (tbd), and do not care about the cool things developers will inevitably be doing with the very large and capable FPGA / Processor chipset then we can have a console option for that under $300.
BUT, if you do care and understand the benefits of having the first ever FPGA enabled console that will also have the ability to play these larger retro games then we can have an option for that at a higher cost.
Is $100-$150 less really worth it to limit the size of the games you want to play and is it also worth it to eliminate the games that will be created using the FPGA/Arm of our console? In the short term it may seem like a lot of money, but in the long term, we will all be shooting ourselves if we cheapen this console up.
Even though we are calling this RETRO VGS, there is nothing RETRO about the hardware. It's a NEW, modern day system, with the capability to play many of the same games that will only be available digitally on the systems from Msoft, Sony and Nintendo.
Look at the Mist and FPGA Arcade Boards. These are FPGA only and basically bare boards with no contollers, no pack-in game, limited output options, no cartridge interface and significantly more limited in what they can do and they are $250-$300 alone. You aren't going to see any modern day games running on those. We have created a console with so much more potential than those and at a much more competitive price.
RVGS may not be for everyone's checkbook, but for those gamers who want to play the latest and greatest retro style games coming from some incredible design teams and play these games on long lasting cartridges then this will be a choice packed with long term value.
We are still addressing the cart storage issues. Masked ROMS might still be a viable option but might not be an option for the larger of the retro games on the market, so we are continuing to look at our options but we are limited by today's technology which seems to all be going more disposable. This is something we can't control. I can only tell you we will provide the best option for game retention that is available today at an affordable price.
We have a few other ways we will be structuring the Kickstarter campaign to benefit the founding backers and make it worth while so please stay positive until the campaign goes live and you have all the information.
I can tell you we will have a minimum goal in the $2.5-$3MM range which will reflect about 7,000 backers minimum. This is a minimum quantity we have guaranteed our initial batch of game developers in this campaign period. We will then build on that the balance of a year until the consoles ship mid 2016. Keep in mind we aren't an existing company with other sources of income. We are not only Kickstarting a product but our company as well. And we don't have the luxury of taking a loss on RVGS out of the gates.
To address those wondering who would make games for a console like this. The one thing I can tell you is developers are coming in droves excited about the potential of having their games preserved on cartridges. Most have said it's a dream to have this and something they never thought they would have had the opportunity to do. Dev's are in line waiting to learn how to make and bring their games to RVGS. Getting an abundance of quality games on this will not be a problem. We will carefully make sure to not over saturate the market and keep the ratio of games to the # of users in check. And also assure we have a variety of all game genres represented.
This is going to be a very trick piece of hardware that will do some amazing things and play some amazing games for a very long time. We can guarantee you all that.
EDIT: Let's address game exclusivity. Like all of you, we see the value of having great games exclusive to this console. So much so we are planning on eventually developing our own first party games using some of the same game developers who made many of your favorite games back in the day. Our team has contacts that go very deep into the gaming industry. But we can't expect 3rd party developers to give us exclusives early on in our life cycle. We want RVGS to be another profit center for them and not limit their revenue generating ability. Once we feel our installed user base can afford to ask for exclusives from 3rd party devs, we will do so.
EDIT: Let's discuss game cart pricing. Hey, either you like disposable digital or you want the real thing. Either you think games are too expensive over $10 or not. If you like the real thing and want cartridges to play a lifetime, with a box and manual then this is for you. Carts will be priced from $20-$50 depending on the scope and size of the game and of course if its a game that people will pay $50 for--read that a popular game, existing franchise, etc.
EDIT: Let's discuss the Kickstarter backers. Founding backers are of the utmost importance to us. Every item purchased through the Kickstarter campaign will be exclusive to this campaign, never to be reproduced again. Whether it be special serial #'s on all units to the cart and consoles colors all backers will be getting something here that won't be available once the campaign ends. We will also be issuing credits based on stretch goals to help lower the price and offset some of the start up costs we will have running through Kickstarter. If we hit larger user/backer #'s it could also decrease some of our parts costs and when those levels are hit, credit toward future purchases will also be given. Nothing like this has ever been Kickstarted before. Unlike OUYA, we have to guarantee backers a minimum amount of users emerging from the campaign, something we can then build on for another 12 months prior to shipping the product. In the end, if you are a backer, you can expect to get the best deal possible on RVGS.
EDIT: Let's discuss dev systems. Also, a big advantage to RVGS is all retail consoles are dev kits right out of the box. Developers aren't going to have to pay any extra to develop for RVGS. We will have methods and instructions for hooking it up to your dev PC and creating / porting your games to RVGS using our free tool chains. In addition, RVGS will work with the game making suites of today, like Unity and Game Maker as well as work with those deving games using Assembly, C++, etc. There will be lots of ways for all types of developers to bring their game onto RVGS, either through the FPGA and/or ARM chipsets. Creating a system like RVGS to cater to all these types of development methods simply costs money but it will be advantageous for gamers because of the type of games that can be made and developed for RVGS.
We have had to weigh and juggle lots of things in the creation of this hardware and we don't expect all of you to understand all of the nuts and bolts of this.
EDIT: Let's discuss output. We want to build in as many output options as we can to satisfy most gamers. We could have gone HD only or composite only. We could forgo the simultaneous HD and Analog out. We could eliminate the RGB options. Is it worth it so scale our output options back?

Now if you don't want to read through all that, basically they are saying they still haven't finalized the specs, which is a little worrisome considering the KS is supposed to launch in two weeks, and the price point is minimum $300 but it could be as high as $450. Also the games will be between 20 and 50 dollars a piece.

I hate to say it but I really don't have much faith left in this project. I wouldn't pay that much for the console and I'm not that hard-core when it comes to physical media that I would pay that much extra for the games to be on cartridge. Looking at the comments in the link below a lot of other people are saying the same thing.

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/872168816185723

[AmigaJay]

Interesting update, quick calculations put the console between $350-$450 (£228-£293) does seem a little high, i was expecting more £150-£200 max, of course shipping to the uk will add to the cost.
I still like the idea, but like all good ideas it comes down to if enough people take it up, £99 is a gamble on kickstarter...£300 is asking a bit too much for me, will still wait until the kickstarter and decide then.

[Shadowrunner]

Interesting update, quick calculations put the console between $350-$450 (£228-£293) does seem a little high, i was expecting more £150-£200 max, of course shipping to the uk will add to the cost.
I still like the idea, but like all good ideas it comes down to if enough people take it up, £99 is a gamble on kickstarter...£300 is asking a bit too much for me, will still wait until the kickstarter and decide then.

Yes, I can't wait to see what kind of reception they get on Kickstarter. It's going to be very interesting!