Retro Video Gamer

Welcome to Retro Video Gamer => Retro News & Chat => Topic started by: Shadowrunner on February 18, 2015, 15:42:53 PM

Title: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on February 18, 2015, 15:42:53 PM
Yep you read that correct, someone is trying to make a brand new cartridge based game console! Mike Kennedy, AKA [member=5080]ReadRetro[/member] is the person behind it, and this is also the guy who runs the video game auction site GameGavel and the magazine Retro.

Here's a link to NintendoAge where it's talked about http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messag ... did=141995 (http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=141995)

To be honest, it's not a bad idea. From what I'm reading it sounds like they want to get all the indie developers on board that make all these 8 and 16 bit style games that are all the rage right now. I'll admit, a lot of my favourite game of last gen were small downloadable games from these indie game studios, and a console that plays nothing but those type of games on cartridge is very appealing.

The look of the console will be very cool, as they have bought the original Atari Jaguar console and cartridge molds! For those who weren't aware, when the Jag went bust a dental company bought all the molds and started manufacturing dental equipment out of them. The company that owns them have been trying to sell them for a few years now, so it worked out pretty good.

I can't say I'm 100% sold on this though. I love the sound of it and really hope they can make it work, but I think the cost of the games on cartridge might be a big problem. Like I said, I love these retro style games that I can download on PSN, Xbox Live etc. They're great games that only cost a few dollars on IOS or Andorid, and a little bit more on the consoles. Would I still love these games if I had to pay $50 and up? Unfortunately I don't think I would for the most part. I don't know exactly how much games would cost if this went ahead, but cartridge components are expensive, just look at the price difference between homebrew games on CD and cart.

Anyway, just wanted to talk about this and see what everyone else thinks. Good idea or bad? Maybe ReadRetro will come around and fill us in a bit more :)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: WiggyDiggyPoo on February 18, 2015, 16:16:20 PM
Well good luck to him but if its a new system with new games it not retro, even if its games are designed to look retro. It reads like it will be a low powered Ouya, but cartridge based.

If it stays as cartridges only it might succeed as a niche product, perhaps they can persuade some hipster types its the new thing to own alongside their reproduction walkmans and record players :21:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on February 18, 2015, 16:54:36 PM
Quote from: "WiggyDiggyPoo"
Well good luck to him but if its a new system with new games it not retro, even if its games are designed to look retro. It reads like it will be a low powered Ouya, but cartridge based.

If it stays as cartridges only it might succeed as a niche product, perhaps they can persuade some hipster types its the new thing to own alongside their reproduction walkmans and record players :21:
I think you hit the nail on the head here, and to me it misses the point of the "retro" scene.  I'd put it like this: Who is into retro gaming?

1.  The nostalgia oriented gamer, who wants new games for their old console.
2.  The gamer who has a philosophical issue with not physically "owning" games.
3.  The old school arcade gamer who doesn't care for the popular modern genres.

I think this console misses the mark there; it lacks nostalgia, and the people developing these iOS games aren't making shmups and other arcade style games on the level of a developer like NG Dev Team.  Only #2 really applies here, and as someone who fits all three groups, I'd rather just keep buying games for my old consoles and disc based Wii U games as long as Nintendo is still in the market.  iOS style games on cartridges, plus having to buy even more hardware?  No thanks.  Now, if they were going to try and use these to make new Jaguar cartridge games, I'd be all for it, but I don't get who the target audience for this is.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on February 18, 2015, 18:07:54 PM
I agree pretty much with Ben on this, though i would love such a console, i dont think these guys realise how much is involved getting a new console, cartridges, controllers, making it all work, ironing out bugs, dead boards etc, getting the games and devs to support it will be...i think the Pandora saga is proof it isnt easy!

Again think the idea in principle is ok, but in reality i cant see this working on any level.
Title: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 18, 2015, 18:21:22 PM
I agree with the above, but to me it's does have a fighting chance though, long as it's not ridiculously priced I can see plenty of people picking one up.

Can I smell a future Kickstarter.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on February 18, 2015, 19:34:41 PM
Yeah, they are planning to go the Kickstarter route, and very soon according to the posts on NA.

Good points guys, and if this does go ahead it's not going to be easy. Still though, Mike seems to be very passionate about retro gaming and more power to him! People scoffed at his magazine idea too, yet it seems to be doing pretty good. 

If this goes ahead I'm sure there will be a lot of ports of simple IOS games, but let's not forget about all the indie games being made for consoles these days. There are some very impressive games on Xbox Live, PSN, and Nintendo e shop that are not available on physical media and would be perfect for something like this. Without the hardware specs it's hard to say what the quality of the games would be like.

At the very least I find it very cool that someone is even thinking about doing this!
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 18, 2015, 19:41:23 PM
Yeah Mike has a passion for retro gaming thats for sure.. i wish them the best of luck and i have reached out to him because we dont want to be left behind on this lol. :113:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on February 18, 2015, 20:15:15 PM
I can't see this really panning out well. Part of the reason people love cartridge-based games is due to the fact that they're usually collecting for a system that grew up with as a kid. In addition, the production of cartridges is really expensive in this day of age compared to the price of memory cards such as SD cards.

Combine all these factors with the fact that those who create retro video games generally either create it for systems they love (2600/NES etc.) or create it on open platforms such as Steam or Android where the install base is incredibly high.

Now we should also look at who this new system will target as an audience:
- Casual gamers (families/children) will most likely stick to the Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft products
- The Emulation Homebrew scene is currently focused on the GCW-Zero and Dingoo due to their open software and relative ease of porting emulators
- The PC gamers are generally contempt with Steam along with their massive catalog of PC games
- The Retro Hombrew scene generally does not deviate from their old-school consoles when creating games due to the large amount of documentation and software given in order to create homebrew

I really can't see who this new system will appeal to at all. Now with all this in mind, I still love the idea of a new console. Hopefully the SDK is released to the general public as I'd love to try and port Cave Story to the console.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 18, 2015, 20:39:48 PM
Some great points, i think the production costs could be cheaper than we think.. the cost to mold the plastics and the pcb's can't be huge these days surely?
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on February 18, 2015, 20:46:22 PM
I'd imagine the games would have to at least be $30+ in order to compensate for the production of the cart. I guess we'll be able to better estimate when more details are revealed.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on February 18, 2015, 20:52:32 PM
Well, that's interesting!  [member=5080]ReadRetro[/member], let us know any more information and about the Kickstarter.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: RPC_GAMES on February 18, 2015, 23:20:35 PM
Hi Guys, does anyone have the specs on the RES machine? It's sounds interesting.

Pete
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: ls650 on February 19, 2015, 03:32:39 AM
Personally I think it would make more sense to pick an existing retro system, and reintroduce it as a newly made box: something like one of the Flashbacks, but with a cart slot.  Imagine something like the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive Flashback, but upgrade with better sound and controllers. 
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on February 19, 2015, 09:14:28 AM
As much as the perfect 'retro' console for me would be a Neo-Geo type console, all 2D pixel-art, no 3D capabilities as such (though GBA style tricks could be possible) with slightly more capabilities...

The only way i see this going to keep costs down is either linux or android OS (hopefully not the latter as you lose so much going through Android) with a cheap system on chip and 8mb ram, but still way more powerful than any retro 2d game really needs and as such imo wont be as interesting because the fun was seeing the devs push the chips and getting results beyond what they should be capable of.

Also with the devs he stated and even Konami then its almost 100% Android a system on chip, so basically a cartridge based Ouya.

Again though nothings been confirmed, but i'm intrigued...for now
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 19, 2015, 12:09:55 PM
Agreed I am very much intrigued by this. Hope for more details soon.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: guest5080 on February 19, 2015, 16:21:03 PM
Hey Everyone! 

I am really enjoying reading everyone's take on this upcoming venture.  It give's my team food for thought.  To begin, I want to assure you all, that this will not be anything like the OUYA or any other android device for that matter.  In fact, like many of you, we really want this to be as close to an old school system as possible in this day and age of HD and HD TV's, which is becoming our Achilles heal in designing our hardware. Ultimately, we wanted to write as close to the metal as technologically possible and have little to no OS intrusion. Unfortunately, because of pretty much needing to output in HD it's forcing our hand in a direction we really didn't want to go.  But, I am not going at this alone and have a very experienced team heading up hardware/software design.  And all are RETRO gamer's at heart and have ton's of industry cred and will do what is best to create a love letter of a system dedicated to all the past cartridge based consoles that have come before it.  Think about what a 2-D console would have performed like after the NEO GEO and that is where we are heading.

We are also talking with and having very positive conversations with many big publishers as well as other pretty famous game developing individuals about deving new games based on many of your favorite 16-bit game franchises.  It will be very fun to see what games will be launched with this system and could be one of the best supported launches in years, especially for RETRO gamers, if we have anything to say about it :) 

It is also very important to me/us to keep this open source and very accessible to all levels of homebrew and indie game development. In fact, we will have a dev support team that will work with the smallest of homebrewers to help get their game on a cartridge, put it in a great looking box with a high quality instruction book, so they may sell their games on their own website, expos, ebay, etc.  And if a game is presented to our team in this fashion and we think we can take it to our larger installed user base, we will negotiate a publishing deal and take their game to the masses.  And the game catalog continues to build  . . . . . .

Since the RETRO VGS won't be expected to increase its capabilities every few years we think it could have a very long life helping to maintain the culture of gaming that has been diminishing the past few console generations.  As long as there are developers who love creating RETRO style games in what has now really become an "artform" and as long as people still value classic style gameplay over real-life graphics then the RETRO VGS could be around for a very long time.

And, what has really made this venture possible is the tracking down and purchase of the original Atari Jaguar console and cartridge tooling.  This has literally saved us a few hundred thousand dollars in start-up costs and I for one think it's pretty great to repurpose what was a pretty attractive gaming console that certainly has it's roots in RETRO.  Of course, it will be completely rebranded and reengineered.  And we have a great RETRO inspired controller to go along with it. 

If you guys want to keep tabs on things as they progress keep an eye out initially at http://www.readRETRO.com (http://www.readRETRO.com) and soon we will have a web page devoted to the RETRO Video Game Console (VGS) - at RETROVGS.com.  Twitter is now at http://www.twitter.com/retrovgs (http://www.twitter.com/retrovgs)

And, if you are a developer and interested in learning more, please contact me directly at socalmike@gamegavel.com.  I have received many emails already and will be responding to all of you shortly.  We hope to have a developer system specification sheet done very soon and it will tell you what you need to know about deving games for the RETRO VGS.


As far as the name, RETRO VGS, it is all part of our brand with the RETRO Magazine which will go hand-in-hand with the console. Some pages will be dedicated to previewing upcoming RETRO VGS games, interviews and liner notes with RETRO VGS dev's, concept art and anecdotes, etc.

We are shooting for a March/April Kickstarter. And this will be unlike any Kickstarter you've seen as it will essentially be Kickstarting the console AND a variety of launch titles (some sequels of fan favorites) all at the same time.  So should be interesting!

- Mike
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on February 19, 2015, 16:53:48 PM
Thanks for replying.
As i said I'm intrigued by this project and obviously hope it succeeds, of course i have some doubts.

Do you anticipate any problems with the console designed circuit board, and are you using all off the shelf parts?
Regarding the OS, you say you don't want any system overheads, surely this would rule out Android at all then?
CPU wise, again cost wise it must be an off the shelf part, but even the cheapest parts are capable of some good 3D, is the machine purely 2D based or will any game design be welcomed?
You say you have been in talks with major publishers, imo they have normally steered clear of 'small projects' like yours and Ouya (with the exeception of Sega testing the water and that was it) what makes you think you can entice these publishers, or are the games purely licensed?

That's is for now, cheers!
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on February 19, 2015, 17:05:45 PM
Thanks for stopping by and filling us in Mike :) It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this and I like the sounds of it all. My only concern is the cost of cartridges and how much games will end up being. Any idea what kind of price point you're looking at for the games?
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on February 19, 2015, 17:31:09 PM
Hey Mike, thanks for the all the information!  I'm excited that you are using the Jaguar tooling.  I think that is awesome. 
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 19, 2015, 17:36:04 PM
Thanks for taking the time to fill us in Mike, really liking the sound of this, as alluded to before, is the OS going to bespoke?
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on February 19, 2015, 19:17:40 PM
I really hope this runs on Linux versus Android.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on February 19, 2015, 20:46:05 PM
I appreciate Mike responding, and I have to say I'm more interested after hearing his plans directly.  I'd just say this:  The key is going to be (as others have said) whether this is an open development platform (i.e. Linux or even BSD based), and if there are quality retro style games made.  If there are shmups, turn based RPGs, 2D platformers, etc. I can only get physically on this console, I'd probably make the purchase.  That's a big if, but I hope it pans out.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on February 19, 2015, 21:01:12 PM
Yes, it HAS to have exclusive decent games otherwise it will fail straight away. Though even the Ouya had exclusives. I.e Towerfall, but like most things in life, as soon as anything good enough turns out and gets noticed, money entices the exclusives to other platforms thats another worry.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: sunteam_paul on February 20, 2015, 17:55:24 PM
My main concern is that it would be too powerful.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 20, 2015, 20:12:29 PM
What do you mean Paul?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Gorf on February 21, 2015, 13:50:31 PM
2D console after the NEO GEO? It was called the Jaguar. We all saw where that went.
What you need is an arm based processor like the OUYA, except it needs to be the latest
of the arm with a latest of the GPU. This time however, you do not use an operating system
like Android which requires evil Java, but instead you need a simple boot strap with built in libs
that will do just about everything you need, including 3D. Also, you will need a TRUE C/C++ and
assembler based dev kit. Make a few rules where you call these libs so future versions will work
with old software. OUYA missed the mark on most of these points. Make it wide open. Make it
not only cart based but also allow the ability for other media. Linux would be acceptable BTW.
But I would just have a Linux kernel without all the bells and whistles. It's light and easy to
deal with and it has an enormous following. As much as I loved the Jaguar, I'm not so sure it
is the best way to package this new console. If this new machine requires a scripting language like
LUA or JAVA...you can bet I'll have no part of it. Just my $0.02.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 21, 2015, 14:07:26 PM
Brilliant feedback so far guys..

Yeah i would love to know what the O/S ideas are or even the thinking at this point.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on February 21, 2015, 14:08:11 PM
Picking up on what Gorf said, if this is going to be a 2D, Linux based console, I would seriously consider the Ruby scripting language with the Gosu dev library (it's MIT licensed).  For more on Gosu - http://www.libgosu.org/ (http://www.libgosu.org/)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Gorf on February 21, 2015, 14:22:40 PM
Quote from: "Ben"
Picking up on what Gorf said, if this is going to be a 2D, Linux based console, I would seriously consider the Ruby scripting language with the Gosu dev library (it's MIT licensed).  For more on Gosu - http://www.libgosu.org/ (http://www.libgosu.org/)

Obviously you did not pick up on what Gorf said......Gorf said NO scripting languages.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! No scripting languages. It should
be based SOLELY on C/C++ and assembler. Then of course one could waste his time
using scripting languages ON TOP of A PURE C/C++ system. Scripting languages, no
matter which one you chose are managed code and completely take the ability of some
one like myself going pedal to the metal. I'll take the responsibility of blowing up an app
due to a bad pointer.....but its MY CODE and not someone else's idea of what should be.
Managed code is for untalented wimps who need their hands held. Managed code is the
illuminati of developer programing.....no thanks.

Base this system on managed code or ANY scripting language and you can forget seeing any
of my apps on it.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on February 21, 2015, 14:50:09 PM
I guess I should have said "offering a counter-opinion to" rather than "picking up on".   :21:  I respect your view though, you definitely know more than I do, I was just throwing Gosu out there because I'm a big fan of it.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Gorf on February 21, 2015, 15:02:14 PM
Quote from: "Ben"
I guess I should have said "offering a counter-opinion to" rather than "picking up on".   :21:  I respect your view though, you definitely know more than I do, I was just throwing Gosu out there because I'm a big fan of it.

I have 35+ years of coding experience. Scripting languages are for wimps who are afraid to explore the lower
levels of a micro processor. Scripting languages tie the coders hands, make the coder a wimp through almost impossible hoops and stupid by laws and God forbid you dare touch the hardware directly. Yeah sure, these scripting piles of shit may LOOK like C/C++ but they are nothing of the sort. That is not to say they could not have alternate languages, but if you do not start from assembler, C/C++ you will wind up with good dev's like me
hating your console.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 21, 2015, 16:59:08 PM
Bit harsh calling them wimps though. But yeah the closer to a real code the better I guess in order to get the most people onboard.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: RPC_GAMES on February 21, 2015, 21:26:01 PM
Gorf is right. I've been programming for 35+years too in assembler and I'd rather dig at the hardware direct than running scripts. People program in different ways, some want to do really cool stuff and have the program or scripts written for them so they put this script + that script together and suddenly you've made a game with other peoples routines. Cool and easy but it's really not your game.

Writing the assembler code yourself is the best thing, they are your own routines and you know exactly what they are doing. So it's best to include an Assembler in the Devs kit for the RVGS.

Pete  :4:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 22, 2015, 21:38:55 PM
Thanks to Mike aka [member=5080]ReadRetro[/member] i have a pic to share.. I have asked if the controller is the finished design and awaiting confirmation.

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad242/zapiy/IMG_0266.jpg)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on February 22, 2015, 21:42:24 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhh! 
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 22, 2015, 22:01:04 PM
Reminds me of a snes controller molded onto and Wii U controller. :113: And i like.. obviously would like to fell it and so on.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on February 22, 2015, 22:23:32 PM
I like it, but...  For me, six face buttons (i.e. the six button MD/Genesis controller or the Saturn controller) is a must for 2D gaming, so I hope this will be compatible with other controllers or they add two more buttons.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 22, 2015, 22:33:03 PM
There is shoulder buttons?
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on February 22, 2015, 22:45:59 PM
Looks ok, as Zapiy said looks like a mini snes controller in the middle! Personally i wouldnt have any analogue sticks!
I take it these are pre cast moulds, so hopefully the final colour is black?
Design must be quite advanced if the controller is all but done? Looking forward to more news now.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 22, 2015, 22:48:01 PM
Quote from: "AmigaJay"
Looks ok, as Zapiy said looks like a mini snes controller in the middle! Personally i wouldnt have any analogue sticks!
I take it these are pre cast moulds, so hopefully the final colour is black?
Design must be quite advanced if the controller is all but done? Looking forward to more news now.

I assume the sticks allow for a wider range of devs getting onboard and games to be created??
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on February 22, 2015, 22:50:03 PM
Quote from: "zapiy"
There is shoulder buttons?
Those work okay, but ask anyone who is into 2D fighters if you want to take on someone playing with a Saturn style controller with a PSX or SNES style controller, and the answer will be an emphatic no.  We're a minority, but I figured I'd at least mention it.  Of course, an arcade stick peripheral, or being compatible with something like the X-Arcade is also a good option.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 22, 2015, 22:52:48 PM
No mate, its a valid point and one worth getting across to the guys. I can't say the will change things but you have an opinion and its a valid one.. I guess it comes down to various design considerations..
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on February 22, 2015, 22:53:58 PM
Having the option of an arcade-style controller is not a bad idea.  Just an added peripheral to the console and that should handle the issues of the buttons. 
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: RPC_GAMES on February 22, 2015, 23:13:32 PM
Thanks Zapiy for the photos. So it's going to look like an Atari Jaguar with a PS1 controller.
If your going to create a brand new product why not create a brand new casing and controller as well.
Remember when the Atari ST was born and then came the Atari Falcon in the same casing as the Atari ST.
Man that was the biggest let down for me. People are going to see the Retro Game Console and think it's a
Atari Jaguar with a different name badge and if it doesn't perform like the Jag then people are going to be very disappointed.
But don't get me wrong it's a great idea and I can't wait to see it in action. I may even dev for the machine.

Pete  :4:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 22, 2015, 23:21:09 PM
Because they purchased all the tooling of the Jaguar fella. That will save thousands to bring this to the market.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Gorf on February 22, 2015, 23:22:39 PM
Quote from: "zapiy"
Bit harsh calling them wimps though. But yeah the closer to a real code the better I guess in order to get the most people onboard.

Ah but the truth is harsh Zapiy. The truth is indeed harsh.  :4:

Look, scripting is limited. If you look at the lot of android based games...lots of them are boring and typical and you can tell they are made with the same basic libs. When you see what I have to offer hopefully soon, you will see a big difference. Yes, I've managed to get a 99.99999% C/C++ app working on Android. Unfortunately I had to use a small Java front end...I think it's rather piss poor to have to do this, but it is what it is. However, you can see the difference in performance and how the game characters behave....because I have FULL control over what they do. Yes, I may blow up a few pointers while developing, but a good programmer has good testers to make sure you find as many as possible. Even my 3D game I'm working on is very retro( Jaguar looking graphics with a 60 FPS speed)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Gorf on February 22, 2015, 23:24:26 PM
Quote from: "RPC_GAMES"
Thanks Zapiy for the photos. So it's going to look like an Atari Jaguar with a PS1 controller.
If your going to create a brand new product why not create a brand new casing and controller as well.
Remember when the Atari ST was born and then came the Atari Falcon in the same casing as the Atari ST.
Man that was the biggest let down for me. People are going to see the Retro Game Console and think it's a
Atari Jaguar with a different name badge and if it doesn't perform like the Jag then people are going to be very disappointed.
But don't get me wrong it's a great idea and I can't wait to see it in action. I may even dev for the machine.

Pete  :4:


I can't help but agree...for a small company startup like these guys, it's not so bad but when a company like Atari does it....OY! ....and I'm glad someone else out there agrees with me on balls to the wall coding.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on February 22, 2015, 23:38:04 PM
I would love to know what other coders here think, is it the same around the net where others are discussing this?
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on February 23, 2015, 01:57:17 AM
That's cool, I already have one of those controllers :21: That must be just to show what they're aiming for, it's actually a third party Wii U controller. Hopefully it works better too, the one I have kept loosing connection with the system and I had to reset it all the time. Eventually I just stopped using it, it did feel very comfortable though and I really liked the d-pad and buttons. If it worked better it would be really nice.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on February 23, 2015, 04:27:53 AM
I love the design of the controller, though I feel those analog sticks are poorly made.

As for scripting languages, calling them a language made for wimps is really harsh and overall ignoring the sole reason scripting languages like Ruby or Python exist. One of the major benefits of programming languages is the fact that you can easily create and run a simple program. If you have a rough idea of a program and don't want to spend countless hours programming it, Python serves that purpose. In addition, languages such as Python, Java, and C# are great for introducing people into programming.

Quote from: "Gorf"
Look, scripting is limited. If you look at the lot of android based games...lots of them are boring and typical and you can tell they are made with the same basic libs. When you see what I have to offer hopefully soon, you will see a big difference.
I'd much rather program in Swift or Java when creating mobile apps than C++. Plus, Java gives the benefit of being relatively easy to learn. One of the core goals of the Android operating system was for it to be accessible for a wide variety of developers to develop for. While the Java VM may be clunky, it gets the job done.

Quote from: "zapiy"
Because they purchased all the tooling of the Jaguar fella. That will save thousands to bring this to the market.
Potential savings maybe, but I'm curious what the cost of producing cartridges will be.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Optimouse on February 26, 2015, 16:01:05 PM
Although we have been through many many hobbyist consoles like this (from all gamepark handhelds to dingoo to pandora to gcw zero and ouya and gamestick and more more more) I am really curious to see how this goes, what will be the specs, how it will differentiate from other attempts like this. What will be th OS? What will be the specs? Will it be a typical powerful ARM soc with or without GPU? Or something less powerful and with some custom hardware for 2d?

I don't mind if it's not very powerful, I enjoy coding software rendering in low end stuff, and even devices most people would consider not too fast or not with many memory, can do a lot of impressive stuff if programmed well. Hell, people consider 1GHz or 256MB of Ram too little nowadays. As a retro coder, this gives you a lot of power if coding in C/C++.

But it remains to see. A low end ARM soc with Linux and SDL and such will be just another typical software rendering framebuffer for me, fun but not something new. Some 16bit/early 32bit with custom 2d hardware might be more interesting but not for the many. A high end ARM soc can be fine imho even for script coders. There used to be a script game engine or something, called Phoenix I think and a lot of nice games (even if not the most impressive or fast) where being released in this for the gamepark handhelds and others. Even Streets of Rage Remake is done in this language/game engine/whatever.

I am really waiting for the kickstarter where I hope to learn more informations on the specs and plans.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: guest5080 on February 26, 2015, 21:14:22 PM
Again, I really appreciate the discussion here and I am making sure our hardware engineers are keeping tabs on your comments.  We will be posting our "official" story on the RETRO VGS on our website today, I hope - http://www.readretro.com (http://www.readretro.com).

In the meantime to follow us along on our journey follow us on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/pages/RETRO-VG ... 6545070951 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/RETRO-VGS/783316545070951)

And Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/retrovgs (http://www.twitter.com/retrovgs)

Thanks all!!

Mike Kennedy
RETRO Media Network
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on February 26, 2015, 22:27:15 PM
Great! Really looking forward to learning more about this :113:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on February 27, 2015, 03:45:24 AM
That's cool!  Looking forward to reading more about the Retro VGS!  :)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on March 14, 2015, 15:41:45 PM
Ok the guys are doing a run of these here which i think deserves a new thread..

Here http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/http:/ ... ic.php?t=3 (http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3) but be quick, limited time only.

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad242/zapiy/10995749_792544774148128_1589079747537372816_n.jpg)

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad242/zapiy/11070931_792544807481458_1928156552669415556_n.jpg)

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad242/zapiy/10647170_792544757481463_5433410790326140254_n.jpg)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on March 14, 2015, 16:37:44 PM
That looks really cool.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on March 14, 2015, 18:14:40 PM
Quote from: "zapiy"
Ok the guys are doing a run of these here which i think deserves a new thread..

Here http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/http:/ ... .php?f=2.0 (http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=2.0) but be quick, limited time only.
The url doesn't take me anywhere. Also, what's the price for these?
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on March 15, 2015, 17:12:04 PM
Fixed the link and check here for prices mate http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/http:/ ... ic.php?t=3 (http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on April 08, 2015, 22:09:38 PM
Just saw this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbFjBmVT ... youtu.be&a (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbFjBmVT_J4&feature=youtu.be&a)

Looking good :113:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on April 09, 2015, 00:37:17 AM
Very cool!  Sounds like the plans behind this are good. 
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on April 11, 2015, 19:21:34 PM
Brilliant.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on April 11, 2015, 23:31:40 PM
Just saw this at Retro Gaming Mag:  TENTATIVE PRICE POINTS FOR RETRO VGS RELEASED AND FIRST GAMEPLAY OF THE FIRST GAME SHOWN (http://http).
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on April 12, 2015, 08:19:34 AM
$200 price point wouldn't be too bad, the main problem would be attracting developers to the system.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on April 12, 2015, 13:13:24 PM
It needs to be 100 here for it to selling in big numbers I think.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Akuza on April 12, 2015, 13:22:25 PM
Quote from: "zapiy"
It needs to be 100 here for it to selling in big numbers I think.

Agreed, a new cartridge console by an unknown, isn't going to sell at 200, at around a 100 maybe abit more, people will jump in purely for nostalgia of it being a retro styled console.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on April 15, 2015, 14:14:38 PM
Ok so its been confirmed that the hardware architecture will be FPGA..

What that means i dont really know and would appreciate someone sharing there thoughts on this that knows a little about the pluses and minuses..
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Greyfox on April 15, 2015, 16:00:09 PM
Quote from: "zapiy"
Ok so its been confirmed that the hardware architecture will be FPGA..

What that means i dont really know and would appreciate someone sharing there thoughts on this that knows a little about the pluses and minuses..


A field-programmable gate array (FPGA) is an integrated circuit designed to be configured by a customer or a designer after manufacturing hence "field-programmable".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-pr ... gate_array (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-programmable_gate_array)

Interesting choice of chipset, but one for the indie devs in mind, plus as far as I know there is a few emulators done on this too, so multi host SD integration if they are clever enough to include this in the console. Making it highly desirable to both customer and pirate, most or less an Android OS.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on April 15, 2015, 18:10:17 PM
Yeah, i appreciate what it is and so forth.. more from a programmers pov..
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on April 15, 2015, 21:20:41 PM
http://danstrother.com/fpga-nes/ (http://danstrother.com/fpga-nes/)

I may just pick one up solely to make a Coleco emulator in FPGA. I can only imagine the headaches I'll endure though  :20:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on April 17, 2015, 17:07:56 PM
Lol i would like to see that. :113:
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on April 19, 2015, 14:10:48 PM
Here's an interesting read about the console from Retro Gaming Mag:  RETRO Video Game System and the Looming Identity Crisis Within (http://http).
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on April 19, 2015, 19:57:05 PM
I agree in the fact it needs exclusives, pure and simple, nothing thats on Android or IOS, and for a developer thats a major risk, why turn down millions of potential mobile users for a few hundred-few thousand retro console owners, like he said the biggest Ouya exclusive dev jumped ship at the first sign of a bigger paycheck, it will be hard to get exclusive games on this, but it will be harder to keep them exclusive.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on April 19, 2015, 23:11:47 PM
Maybe they'll need to make limited-time exclusives with different features on the console.  Features that would not be available on other systems would keep some sort of exclusivity to the Retro System and may, perhaps, help out.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on April 26, 2015, 15:57:07 PM
If anyone wants to learn more about the console, I recommend you listen to Episode 18 of the Intellivisionaries podcast.  There is a nice interview with Mike Kennedy where he discusses the console and their plans for it. 
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Papa on April 26, 2015, 22:09:18 PM
I think it's gonna have a lot of great games that really need to be on carts to seem like they're in the right place.  Assaulter, for instance.  It looks like a Neo Geo or suped-up SNES game but plays on Androids and other systems.  Shovel Knight comes to mind.

    It reminds me how much of a waste of resources it truly is to play a NES or Sega Master System game on a $700 game system at hundreds of watts.  I don't think it's wrong to get all of your favorite systems emulated on the console you just bought.  Especially if you replace the last one you bought with whatever just came out.  It can seem wasteful to get one of those new machines IF you only plan to download retro.  I just love to play on original hardware and am happy to spend the lowest wattage possible to do so.  Scraping up all of the best games out there that resemble so much the systems of old and putting them on cartridges to buy and own forever seems like a gift from above!

   I'm going for it when it comes out regardless and would like to see some old company names from back in the day.  Maybe Konami or Capcom, or even Sega could pop out some programs for it!  If it's only Indie games it still will have a massive library to work with. Just look at the Ouya!  I hope they have a good mix of ports, originals, rehashes and a lot of old-school!  I'd pay $150 or $180, but it's gonna be around $300+ when I grab up all the launch titles (or more), so I hope they can keep it low.  If I can plug in 6-button Sega pads it would be better, in my opinion, than the do-it-all pads they're sporting.  I like those and all, but not too many pads feel as perfect as that 6-button Sega pad. 

I can't wait!!
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on April 26, 2015, 23:09:11 PM
The more learn about it, the more interested I become.  :)
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: hamie96 on April 27, 2015, 03:27:14 AM
Quote from: "Papa"
I think it's gonna have a lot of great games that really need to be on carts to seem like they're in the right place.  Assaulter, for instance.  It looks like a Neo Geo or suped-up SNES game but plays on Androids and other systems.  Shovel Knight comes to mind.

Why would any indie developer bother with the additional cost? What sort of audience would they gain that they wouldn't already have from PC or console? I highly doubt we'll see indie games ported to the system (aside from maybe a handful).

Quote from: "Papa"
It reminds me how much of a waste of resources it truly is to play a NES or Sega Master System game on a $700 game system at hundreds of watts.  I don't think it's wrong to get all of your favorite systems emulated on the console you just bought.  Especially if you replace the last one you bought with whatever just came out.  It can seem wasteful to get one of those new machines IF you only plan to download retro.


That's why devices such as Android phones and GCW-Zero exist. I mean even my smartphone from 2010 can emulate Genesis and SNES games. Most people probably don't want to spend another $150-$200 on a machine just to play classic games when they already have a PC or phone that is capable of doing so already.

Quote from: "Papa"
   
I'm going for it when it comes out regardless and would like to see some old company names from back in the day.  Maybe Konami or Capcom, or even Sega could pop out some programs for it!
Never going to happen. Why should they waste their time on this machine that'll inevitably have a small fanbase. The opportunity cost of developing for the system is far too great to be an option. It's far more likely homebrew enthusiasts will flock to the system more than anything.

Quote from: "Papa"

Just look at the Ouya!
The Ouya is considered to be a massive failure and horrible disappointment and is used consistently on why Kickstarter isn't a perfect platform. It massively under performed in every area and they've already discontinued the product after only a year after release.

Overall, the more and more I read about this new console, the less intrigued I am and the more worried I feel this will end up becoming just like the Ouya.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on April 27, 2015, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: "hamie96"

The Ouya is considered to be a massive failure and horrible disappointment and is used consistently on why Kickstarter isn't a perfect platform. It massively under performed in every area and they've already discontinued the product after only a year after release.

Overall, the more and more I read about this new console, the less intrigued I am and the more worried I feel this will end up becoming just like the Ouya.
I agree with most of what you said, although regarding the Ouya, i don't agree at all it was a massive failure, the internet is a massively blinkered place for slurring stuff they don't know much about.

For starters the Kickstarter was a huge success and was one of the biggest totals to date, the product arrived albeit a little after schedule, certainly not too late like a lot of products on there who seemingly dont get slagged off because they aren't as much in the public eye.

Machine wise, yes the OS was a bit buggy to start with, but they have added lots improvements, again something other android devices don't bother with and leave you to suffer.
Game wise there is over 1000 games now, sure some are crap, but there is a lot of gems in there, and quite a few hit the Ouya first before ported to Play store, PS4, Wii U etc

And of course alot of people like me still use it for streaming/emulator use, its a cheap set top box and in no way a failure of that kind, the company is still going 2 years after release, they are branching into licensing the Ouya OS into China and other markets and still receive $million dollar contracts for doing so....not bad for a Kickstarter campaign.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Greyfox on April 27, 2015, 10:27:45 AM
They way I see it, firstly agreed with both of you nearly all accounts, but regarding big software companies been if true, propositioned to encourage them to develope and release old or brand new title to the RVS are very unlikely because they operate within massive return on development costs, promotion and a distribution newt work which I'm afraid no matter how much this makes via its kickstarter can achieve. Ouya is a perfect example, claiming over million dollars in donations to produce there machine, yet none of the big software houses have Released games on it?

Remember the GameGadget fiasco? Promised to have exclusive sega content and many other big names attached to it? Other than a pile in emulator with a granted permission to include megadrive games, done time and time again? On other plug and play handhelds? So if there are claims that this console will be different in securing games from capcom, sega, or even sink are as far fetched a reality of cows jumping the moon, the reality is purely based at aiming for people willing to dev for the machine for notoriety and entry which could bear some superb games but will be contained within a small circle of devs decided, remember a game needs a musician, an pixel or 3d artist, a programmer and PR person and possible a traditional art to produce box art and the likes and can't solely rely on RVS to do that for them.

I'm unsure what type of market research was done or what they feel the finances they've formed in projected awareness and promotion in America, Europe or Japan to encourage game teams to jump on? If they feel America is their kept market than I have little hope, people are great, one minute it's a great idea and will go far, the next, hmm I don't really want to invest in another console with wealth of machines out there already plus the games are a bit pricey etc.. So it really boils down to the way it's promoted, marketed and to who, and if I'm been honest, the retro community is known for stabbing its friendly' in the back. This really does need thinking outside the box.
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Papa on April 27, 2015, 18:52:23 PM
I wouldn't compare a machine that you plug into your TV to a handheld phone or android.  Granted, my sons JXD can plug into an HDMI port, it isn't that great on a big screen.  Most phones are big squint developers for me.  I scrunch and wrinkle my face up just trying to decipher what is going on on handhelds and androids.  I never bought into the XBOX One, PS3, PS4, Wii-U, 3DS, PSP, Vita,etc..  I went through several modded 360's and after they all RRODed on me I sunk back into my original modded XBOX and DC, GC, PS2, Atari, Genesis, etc.. So, I would really enjoy a new solid state cart system like back in the day.  I think there is enough out there to keep people into it whether big companies jump on or not.

 I don't consider things a success based on how many units they sell, but on how many good games are out on it and how much fun I have with it.  I like the Game.com.  I didn't like how blurry the first one was, but got a front-lit screen pocket pro a while back and really enjoyed Resident Evil and a few of the arcade ports.  I also used it for a phone-book and calender. 

A lot of people have said 'Never gonna happen' about this system.  Have you listened to the hours of interviews with the guy making it?  He is talking about a release next year and has the shell, controllers, title game and, from what he says, many game makers on board.  It's going to happen.  It's not kinda maybe gonna happen, it's coming out. 

If it's just a homebrewers plaything (I could use it) it would be sad.  I think that smaller game companies could use it to secure more profits from existing android titles, or sequel up what is already successful. 

How much do you know about what the people really want?  Do you spend your days checking out market info on games or how many sell or what people like.  This guy does.  He has a lot of friends in the business and has expressed their desire to have certain games on solid state cartridges.  He's not just coming out of left field with an idea that can't stand. 

The Ouya shook up the big companies enough to have half of each of the biggest companies displays at the last CES full of indie developer games that are downloads for the expensive systems.  They locked it out of it's launch year CES and had security block them with trucks.  I don't have one, because I've already owned enough JXD systems and Androids to know that most android downloads aren't for me. 

This idea may have a big following with developers for it's security.  I've seen downloads of a thousand Android games all at once.  I'm sure most of it was illegit copies that should have been paid for.  Companies know that they lose a ton of money on piracy and may want a cartridge that's hard to duplicate or copy on a system with no DLC or internet! 

I don't know that there would be an additional cost.  The carts may be produced with internal MicroSD or some proprietary low cost chip and not be much, or any more than publishing through hosts.  They have already stated that a DevCart is coming out that will work through a PC, so it does seem like indie/homebrew might be their primary source. 

I don't think the system is coming out to emulate older systems games.  They might, but I don't think that is what they intend to do.  Neo Geo would be wonderful, but that's really because the X system didn't do so great.  New games and popular retro style games like Assaulter and Shovel Knight are said to be the focus.  He said that it could do games like old 8-bit up to PS1 style, with 16-bit being the sweet spot. 

I think it would help to back people away from the scoop and grab piracy that happens so much in emulation today,  secure profits for indie and homebrew developers (maybe rehashes from existing companies), give users a long lasting system with no DLC or internet requirements, and be a super fun cart player!! 
Title: Re: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on April 27, 2015, 20:30:52 PM
Yeah i have no doubt this guy has done his research, but its always different from a questionaire to someone actually laying down 200/$200 for something.
Again i do want this to work, but as of now its to imagine all pieces and enough support happening, plus the indie games have to be a decent enough quality, no offense to the launch bundled game as i know its not finished, but it certainly needs to improve quality wise if thats going to launch alongside the machine.

As for carts, if its sd or micro sd then it would a major disapointment and would mean a big no from me, the whole idea or so i thought would be the games would come on a rom cartridge, i.e instant loading games, no loading from slow flash memory, anyway as the images we have seen im pretty sure its the latter.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on July 17, 2015, 07:43:15 AM
The website is now live, Developers can now make contact with them to release their games.

http://www.retrovgs.com/home.html (http://www.retrovgs.com/home.html)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on July 17, 2015, 20:29:01 PM
Cool, lots of info on their site. Really looking forward to the KS and seeing what kind of interest there is.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on July 17, 2015, 23:51:47 PM
Cool to see the site is up.  Nice way to stay updated.  :)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Greyfox on July 18, 2015, 16:01:32 PM
It is a nice looking site and a great way for everyone to get involved, I wish them the very best with this whole enterprise and that they get the people on board to support such an ambitious project.

really looking forward to the games set to appear on this. They have as good a chance as anyone.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on August 17, 2015, 19:13:32 PM
Just saw this on their website!

Quote
When is the Kickstarter Happening?
We are launching the RETRO VGS Kickstarter campaign the week of September 14, 2015.

Only a month to go :113:
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on August 17, 2015, 19:15:05 PM
Interesting development... [member=5080]ReadRetro[/member]
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on August 31, 2015, 20:04:42 PM
Here is the latest info from their facebook account.

Quote
Edits are being made so re-reading this might be a good thing.
Hey All,
I wanted to come in here and address the RVGS pricing issue. It really all comes down to what gamers want to play on RVGS. For us, gamers ourselves, we want RVGS to have the ability to play all these incredible larger Retro inspired titles that are hitting the market these days, and will continue to hit the market for years and years to come. And play these games on cartridges vs. disposable digital. We also want to see what developers can do to create their own custom effects utilizing the FPGA/Arm combo we are supplying. This chipset will give them unlimited potential to do things we've never seen before in a game.
If all you want to do is play games up to a limited file size, like 50 MB for example (tbd), and do not care about the cool things developers will inevitably be doing with the very large and capable FPGA / Processor chipset then we can have a console option for that under $300.
BUT, if you do care and understand the benefits of having the first ever FPGA enabled console that will also have the ability to play these larger retro games then we can have an option for that at a higher cost.
Is $100-$150 less really worth it to limit the size of the games you want to play and is it also worth it to eliminate the games that will be created using the FPGA/Arm of our console? In the short term it may seem like a lot of money, but in the long term, we will all be shooting ourselves if we cheapen this console up.
Even though we are calling this RETRO VGS, there is nothing RETRO about the hardware. It's a NEW, modern day system, with the capability to play many of the same games that will only be available digitally on the systems from Msoft, Sony and Nintendo.
Look at the Mist and FPGA Arcade Boards. These are FPGA only and basically bare boards with no contollers, no pack-in game, limited output options, no cartridge interface and significantly more limited in what they can do and they are $250-$300 alone. You aren't going to see any modern day games running on those. We have created a console with so much more potential than those and at a much more competitive price.
RVGS may not be for everyone's checkbook, but for those gamers who want to play the latest and greatest retro style games coming from some incredible design teams and play these games on long lasting cartridges then this will be a choice packed with long term value.
We are still addressing the cart storage issues. Masked ROMS might still be a viable option but might not be an option for the larger of the retro games on the market, so we are continuing to look at our options but we are limited by today's technology which seems to all be going more disposable. This is something we can't control. I can only tell you we will provide the best option for game retention that is available today at an affordable price.
We have a few other ways we will be structuring the Kickstarter campaign to benefit the founding backers and make it worth while so please stay positive until the campaign goes live and you have all the information.
I can tell you we will have a minimum goal in the $2.5-$3MM range which will reflect about 7,000 backers minimum. This is a minimum quantity we have guaranteed our initial batch of game developers in this campaign period. We will then build on that the balance of a year until the consoles ship mid 2016. Keep in mind we aren't an existing company with other sources of income. We are not only Kickstarting a product but our company as well. And we don't have the luxury of taking a loss on RVGS out of the gates.
To address those wondering who would make games for a console like this. The one thing I can tell you is developers are coming in droves excited about the potential of having their games preserved on cartridges. Most have said it's a dream to have this and something they never thought they would have had the opportunity to do. Dev's are in line waiting to learn how to make and bring their games to RVGS. Getting an abundance of quality games on this will not be a problem. We will carefully make sure to not over saturate the market and keep the ratio of games to the # of users in check. And also assure we have a variety of all game genres represented.
This is going to be a very trick piece of hardware that will do some amazing things and play some amazing games for a very long time. We can guarantee you all that.
EDIT: Let's address game exclusivity. Like all of you, we see the value of having great games exclusive to this console. So much so we are planning on eventually developing our own first party games using some of the same game developers who made many of your favorite games back in the day. Our team has contacts that go very deep into the gaming industry. But we can't expect 3rd party developers to give us exclusives early on in our life cycle. We want RVGS to be another profit center for them and not limit their revenue generating ability. Once we feel our installed user base can afford to ask for exclusives from 3rd party devs, we will do so.
EDIT: Let's discuss game cart pricing. Hey, either you like disposable digital or you want the real thing. Either you think games are too expensive over $10 or not. If you like the real thing and want cartridges to play a lifetime, with a box and manual then this is for you. Carts will be priced from $20-$50 depending on the scope and size of the game and of course if its a game that people will pay $50 for--read that a popular game, existing franchise, etc.
EDIT: Let's discuss the Kickstarter backers. Founding backers are of the utmost importance to us. Every item purchased through the Kickstarter campaign will be exclusive to this campaign, never to be reproduced again. Whether it be special serial #'s on all units to the cart and consoles colors all backers will be getting something here that won't be available once the campaign ends. We will also be issuing credits based on stretch goals to help lower the price and offset some of the start up costs we will have running through Kickstarter. If we hit larger user/backer #'s it could also decrease some of our parts costs and when those levels are hit, credit toward future purchases will also be given. Nothing like this has ever been Kickstarted before. Unlike OUYA, we have to guarantee backers a minimum amount of users emerging from the campaign, something we can then build on for another 12 months prior to shipping the product. In the end, if you are a backer, you can expect to get the best deal possible on RVGS.
EDIT: Let's discuss dev systems. Also, a big advantage to RVGS is all retail consoles are dev kits right out of the box. Developers aren't going to have to pay any extra to develop for RVGS. We will have methods and instructions for hooking it up to your dev PC and creating / porting your games to RVGS using our free tool chains. In addition, RVGS will work with the game making suites of today, like Unity and Game Maker as well as work with those deving games using Assembly, C++, etc. There will be lots of ways for all types of developers to bring their game onto RVGS, either through the FPGA and/or ARM chipsets. Creating a system like RVGS to cater to all these types of development methods simply costs money but it will be advantageous for gamers because of the type of games that can be made and developed for RVGS.
We have had to weigh and juggle lots of things in the creation of this hardware and we don't expect all of you to understand all of the nuts and bolts of this.
EDIT: Let's discuss output. We want to build in as many output options as we can to satisfy most gamers. We could have gone HD only or composite only. We could forgo the simultaneous HD and Analog out. We could eliminate the RGB options. Is it worth it so scale our output options back?

Now if you don't want to read through all that, basically they are saying they still haven't finalized the specs, which is a little worrisome considering the KS is supposed to launch in two weeks, and the price point is minimum $300 but it could be as high as $450. Also the games will be between 20 and 50 dollars a piece.

I hate to say it but I really don't have much faith left in this project. I wouldn't pay that much for the console and I'm not that hard-core when it comes to physical media that I would pay that much extra for the games to be on cartridge. Looking at the comments in the link below a lot of other people are saying the same thing.

https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/872168816185723 (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/872168816185723)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on August 31, 2015, 20:25:34 PM
Interesting update, quick calculations put the console between $350-$450 (228-293) does seem a little high, i was expecting more 150-200 max, of course shipping to the uk will add to the cost.
I still like the idea, but like all good ideas it comes down to if enough people take it up, 99 is a gamble on kickstarter...300 is asking a bit too much for me, will still wait until the kickstarter and decide then.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on August 31, 2015, 20:41:15 PM
Quote from: "AmigaJay"
Interesting update, quick calculations put the console between $350-$450 (228-293) does seem a little high, i was expecting more 150-200 max, of course shipping to the uk will add to the cost.
I still like the idea, but like all good ideas it comes down to if enough people take it up, 99 is a gamble on kickstarter...300 is asking a bit too much for me, will still wait until the kickstarter and decide then.

Yes, I can't wait to see what kind of reception they get on Kickstarter. It's going to be very interesting!
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Greyfox on August 31, 2015, 22:55:03 PM
Hmm. I'm beginning to think who are they actually marketing this too? Confused? I am too lol. Pricing a console production costs reflecting to that at retail is a one way ticket to still birth and I hate saying this , this is what appears to be happening here, I've seen the three games and although the looking very cool and traditional to the heart of been Retro, cartridge based or not, a chip been burn to an eprom chip housed inside a plastic casing can't surely warrant a $20-$50 price are they basing this to what people spend on limited run homebrew releases?

I think they are hoping that this will be enough for the true retro gaming fans or diehard collectors as a new niche machine to collect for? Handheld android devices and other gaming devices surely have to have a cause and effect here, the struggle to convince people must be an incredible feat. And the kickstarter may not fair better either, I would estimate that they will do a special discount for kickstarter backers and with predictable include subscriptions to their Retro Magazine and the custom sprayed versions of the RVS to entice you in and I bloody hope they do, this could be the last console ever like this to grace the ungrateful public!

But I'm wth Shadowrunner on this, unless the thing can part an ocean and welcome all with beams of retro giving light and content, it could be a little case of not enough time to perfect things to the pinnacle needed to go down with a bang regarding its hardware and games, I wish them the very best of luck.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on August 31, 2015, 23:10:35 PM
Homebrew games on carts, tapes etc do well people grow up with a piece of hardware and get attached in such a way, so any new release after many years will get attention, a new piece of hardware is totally different, of course their will be people who want one at any cost, people who want one at a cheap cost, but 7000+ people imo is asking alot, but again people thought Ouya was pointless and that made millions, so as has been said im excited at seeing what happens.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on August 31, 2015, 23:18:47 PM
That is a pretty high price point for the console!  I believe, they are going to have difficulty getting this supported.  I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: nosweargamer on September 01, 2015, 17:37:09 PM
Wow. Thanks for sharing! I surprised they are giving us an idea of the price point before the kickstarter with it being so close. Perhaps they are trying to avoid the sticker shock when the kicstarter goes live. I thought originally they wanted to keep the system in the 150 to 180 ballpark. Now it sounds like it will double. That is quite the increase. Actually, I don't think 20-50 per cartridge is unreasonable, but think about this: The Jag cost 250 at launch. Many thought that the price was too high and the launch software did not impress. Hopefully the RVGS does not make the same mistake of being overpriced without impressive titles to back it up. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 01, 2015, 19:04:12 PM
I actually like what these guys are doing and I am a firm believer that Mike [member=5080]ReadRetro[/member] is a guy who really wants to give us the best system he possibly can, the trouble is to do that, the cost has nearly doubled, talk of a Jamma connection as well. I think some of this needs to be wound back.. At the lower cost i may have backed it.. I can't justify it now at that price and this will be a tight campaign because of this now.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 03, 2015, 14:57:38 PM
More info from their facebook page.

Quote
** JUST REVEALED ** RETRO VGS WILL PLAY THOUSANDS OF GAMES RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!
Are we leaving the FPGA inside RVGS? The answer is YES. Removing this part of our hardware will significantly reduce the value and capability of this machine. We are excited to reveal that we will have a variety of inexpensive classic gaming cartridge adapters that will allow you to play your original games (and using your original classic gaming controllers) from your collections in RVGS using only the highest quality, read that lots of GOLD, cartridge connectors. You won't have to worry about sticking in your prized copy of Air Raid or Little Samson into the RVGS cartridge slot.

Now this just got interesting!

You can read the entire update here https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts ... 96057345:0 (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/873452596057345:0)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 03, 2015, 15:03:51 PM
That is interesting indeed.  One console to rule them all!
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 03, 2015, 15:14:00 PM
I'm definitely more interested now. If the adapters aren't too expensive and it all works good it adds a lot of value.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 03, 2015, 15:19:39 PM
Quote from: "Shadowrunner"
I'm definitely more interested now. If the adapters aren't too expensive and it all works good it adds a lot of value.
Indeed.  I agree.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 05, 2015, 17:51:17 PM
This is sounding great but still need to work on the prices quoted.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Saturn on September 06, 2015, 15:15:48 PM
That could be the ultimate game changer (npi). If it works and plays different systems' games as they were meant, it could solve a lot of expensive issues like replacing consoles every time they tank. I know for me buying Sega Saturns are getting expensive and less meaningful (due to the age of the system and used status, which is an unknown regardless of the sales pitch). I doubt Saturn, or especially the Jaguar would be included due to their complicated architecture, but I know nothing of what's taking place internally and hope to be pleasantly surprised. Always try to prepare for the worst/most realistic option tho.
Cool info. I can't wait to see what the final product will be and will be capable of 8)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 14, 2015, 15:49:21 PM
I saw a tweet from one of the editors of the Retro magazine saying that the Kickstarter for the VGS is launching today! I assume he knows what he's talking about so I'm watching for it and I'll start a new thread when it goes live.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 14, 2015, 15:57:05 PM
Cool.  Will keep an eye for your post.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 14, 2015, 19:38:16 PM
Official twitter feed couple of hours ago mentioned its launching kickstarter end of this week, so def not today.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 14, 2015, 19:57:51 PM
Yeah I see that now :( Oh well, not too much longer.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: onthinice on September 14, 2015, 20:50:20 PM
Quote from: "Shadowrunner"
More info from their facebook page.

Quote
** JUST REVEALED ** RETRO VGS WILL PLAY THOUSANDS OF GAMES RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!
Are we leaving the FPGA inside RVGS? The answer is YES. Removing this part of our hardware will significantly reduce the value and capability of this machine. We are excited to reveal that we will have a variety of inexpensive classic gaming cartridge adapters that will allow you to play your original games (and using your original classic gaming controllers) from your collections in RVGS using only the highest quality, read that lots of GOLD, cartridge connectors. You won't have to worry about sticking in your prized copy of Air Raid or Little Samson into the RVGS cartridge slot.

Now this just got interesting!

You can read the entire update here https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts ... 96057345:0 (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/posts/873452596057345:0)

Inexpensive cartridge adaptors? Does that means the sound will be off from the original?
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 14, 2015, 22:02:20 PM
No idea, generally emulation isn't perfect so there could be issues. Hopefully we will know more later this week.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 15, 2015, 16:22:33 PM
Taking this from AA forum where Mike has revealed the price for the KS.

Quote
500 @ $299 - Early Bird Black RVGS Only

$349 is our base price during the campaign plus choice of Legend or Jewel series colors. These are unlimited exclusives made for the campaign only.

So if you're okay with black and get in early you can save $50.

With current exchange rates, 263/308 EUR or 193/226 GBP. I have no idea how this is going to turn out, but at those prices I don't have a good feeling about it.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 15, 2015, 18:04:16 PM
Depends what's thrown in with it. We shall see soon enough.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 15, 2015, 21:20:13 PM
Interesting, if they get some more ngdev games on it it will be worth it for those alone! Gunlord is a good start and worth buying but i want their SEUs in cart form!
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 17, 2015, 23:46:40 PM
Okay, update time. I hate to tell people to go to another sites forum for info, but that's where I'm getting all this from as the RVGS website, twitter, and facebook accounts aren't saying much.

Here's the AA thread on the subject http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430 ... vgs/page-1 (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/page-1) It's 48 pages long so you're going to probably want to skip to the last few pages. There's also links there to the neogaf forum where Mike has been posting about it.

It sounds like they don't have a working prototype, which is against the terms of use for Kickstarter, so they are going to be using Indiegogo for funding instead and it's supposed to be launching sometime this weekend.

I don't see this going anywhere now, but hope to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 18, 2015, 00:20:47 AM
Hmm, that's interesting.  I had not read about their not having a working prototype.  I wonder how long until they have one they can demo for potential supporters.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 18, 2015, 03:41:11 AM
Just saw this at AUSRetrogamer:  Retro VGS: Keeping It Retro (http://http).  There are some pictures of the color options. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 18, 2015, 22:30:48 PM
Here's the official announcement from their facebook page.

Quote
Hello Everyone! The time is finally now and we will be activating our Indiegogo Campaign tomorrow (Saturday) morning at 9 AM Pacific Time.

Indiegogo had been courting us to use their service the past few months and have extended to us some accommodations that were very enticing. In addition, we have also had discussions with Kickstarter about their policy which requires hardware campaigns to show off explicit demonstrations of a prototype. We have since found a few running hardware campaigns on Kickstarter that show nothing of the sort and have questioned them about it, only to find you really don't need to show a working prototype, just to be clear and upfront with backers so they know exactly where you are in the development process. We asked if they would then reword their policy to reflect this and at this point they have not done so.

Since we didn't want to confuse anyone where we were in this process, we feel we just can't use Kickstarter while that policy is worded as such and thus have moved to the other very large crowdfunding company, Indiegogo.

There has been some confusion with how Indiegogo operates as they offer both a flexible and fixed funding option. We, of course, are using their "fixed" funding option which works just like Kickstarter, in that, we need to raise our minimum amount in order to fund the campaign. If that is not reached any of you who back this project get a refund right away for the amount you pledged. Here is a link on their website describing that process: https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/ ... 76-Refunds (https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526876-Refunds)

In any event, we are ready to take RETRO VGS to that next level and put all of you on the front lines with weekly updates and videos as we enter the costly prototyping phase and eventually the production and shipping phase.

We hope to see you all on the other side! And thanks again for all your support and feedback.

So tomorrow morning it is. I won't be around at that time to create a new thread so if someone else want's to feel free, or we can just continue talking about it here.

Here's the link to that quote, they're getting killed in the comments. https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/photo ... =1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/RETROVGS/photos/a.793351770734095.1073741829.783316545070951/881539255248679/?type=1&theater)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 18, 2015, 23:31:21 PM
Yeah its been annoying they announce this week kickstarter campaign starting, then no announcement until today, and now we find out its indegogo which takes the money instantly...i can understand people being peeved about this, they certainly arent doing themselves any favours, they need every buyer they can get.
Title: Retro VCS console
Post by: Greyfox on September 19, 2015, 00:51:52 AM
all I can say is Wow..just Wow. How long is it now since they started this project? And all they've shown is 3D renders? In the majority of the announcement of the machine, switching from one system to another especially one in which people have a huge disliking too(Indigeogo) did they not research ratings of the level of trust and usage for these fund raising organisations ? Rather than move off based of Kickstarter locking hardware developers into having to produce a prototype before been allowed to be crowd funded.

The reason? To PROTECT the backer from been conned and having high perk tallies been stolen by the fund raiser, and stop them riding into the sunset. Look what happen with the Icontroller 2 project, a 150,000 ($248,000) vanished into thin air along with the developer behind it and left honest and vulnerable members of the project like a smashed vase having to pick up the pieces and refund or compensate the backers who invested big and this is one of many KS hardware raiser sting people out of huge money. So yes they are 100% right to do this and I think it's a bit of a cover story to claim otherwise by the RVGS team on this, they've no hardware of such to actual any real game running on what will be RVGS.

I'm with Shadowrunner on this, it's gone frm bad to worse with little or no insensible to invest that type of money and with all the curb trips they've been making, is showing that they have not got the protential experience needed to promote such a project in the manner needed to drive it home, did the Retron5 have similar problem with marketing? Which may well be is knife in the back, I really hope it's not as I think this would be a cool machine, but what exactly are they bringing to the market? A retron5 console disguised as a classic Atari Jagaur with some exclusive title which could be done on a megadrive, Snes,  NeoGeo platform with possible even more improved quality graphics etc.

It may not be off to a good start, but I think the team behind are sincere in their vision and their hopes to bring it to the market which I totally welcome, but iron out all the concerns as there are many.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 19, 2015, 03:02:28 AM
Hmm, I guess I'll keep an eye on it to see how it goes.  I won't be able to start a thread for the campaign until later in the day as I'm in a meeting all weekend long.  Maybe it can just be followed here. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 19, 2015, 08:18:41 AM
Yeah the big worry is timeframe, the main guy behind this has had previous money up front so i believe hes trustworthy and will try to keep his promise, but the major problem is lack of prototype, not because there is nothing to see, but going from nothing to finished model in what next summer 8-10 months is pushing it to say the least, even companies with working models have so many issues and change slight things and can need 10+ revisons, whihc arent cheap nor quick if being made in the far east which they prob are to cheap cost down, its like they have only planned a timeline to built the prototype when the funds come and expect it to be perfect and start production from that first revision, thats my major worry, i believe they can offer what they promise just not within the timeframe.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 19, 2015, 09:58:31 AM
Some massive issues there for me, however given the time frame of the indiegogo they will have approx 30 days to convince me to back it. At this point i am not a backer in my mind due to the issues they have currently and the fact no working model has been created.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 19, 2015, 10:29:15 AM
Having just listened to the podcast that was posted on facebook has given me hope that the hardware guy really knows his stuff and has done alot in the past, plus the boards and carts are being made within 50-100 miles where they are based, so these facts will help getting these protos made faster...actually looking forward to the campaign later to see whats on offer.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 19, 2015, 20:26:31 PM
Here it is https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retro-vgs#/story (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retro-vgs#/story)

3 hours in and just over $40,000 so far. The goal is just short of 2 million so a long way to go but obviously some people are supporting this. I still believe they have the best intentions here but I'm just not prepared to pay that much money and wait however long it takes for them to manufacture them.

If it gets funded and makes it to retail I'll take another look at it then. Best of luck to them.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 19, 2015, 21:40:29 PM
Thanks for posting the link!
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 20, 2015, 18:19:12 PM
Going to need to achieve more that $45,000 a day so not looking good..
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 20, 2015, 20:13:58 PM
No doesnt look like it, the big trouble was switching to indiegogo, with kickstarter you can built up momentum, people seeing it fail wont even contribute, it looks like it will crash and burn before even taking off.

Shame.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 20, 2015, 20:22:42 PM
I guess it has time, how much do they need to get? I heard Indiegogo collects the money whatever?
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 20, 2015, 22:16:47 PM
They need $2 million.... Indiegogo takes payment instantly, but refunds if unsuccessful, people myself included prefer the kickstarter method, plus its in the middle of payday not everyone has 200-250 at the drop of a hat, like i said if something goes well then people get more interested and may well get involved, the way indiegogo works doesnt help and having a poor start just puts people off, id be very surprised if this gets 1/2 million.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 21, 2015, 02:16:43 AM
It is at $59,507 right now.  They still have 44 days left but, at that pace, it seems unlikely it will reach the $2 million mark.  I think going to Indiegogo is a factor that is not helping. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on September 21, 2015, 03:29:30 AM
Quote from: "TrekMD"
It is at $59,507 right now.  They still have 44 days left but, at that pace, it seems unlikely it will reach the $2 million mark.  I think going to Indiegogo is a factor that is not helping.
I have to agree, I make a point of never backing anything on Indiegogo.  I wasn't too thrilled with this console when it was planned for Kickstarter, since I still hadn't seen a good explanation of who the target audience was and they kept expanding the plans for it with retro console emulation. At this point, I think it makes more sense and  it would be preferable to just keep backing more Dreamcast homebrews since it's a given they'll get release if funded and I at least won't have that much money on the line if something doesn't work out.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 21, 2015, 12:30:52 PM
Over at Retro Gamin Mag's site, Carl Williams has written a commentary on the console and the campaing:  RETRO VGS Sees Immense Social Media Backlash as Crowdfunding Project Begins (http://http).
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 21, 2015, 19:07:43 PM
Great article. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: rush6432 on September 21, 2015, 19:21:14 PM
I have to say, the amount of drama surrounding this project is immense...

While a great idea, i just don't think its going to get off the ground due to many un-answered or evaded questions among many other things. It seems the window for this to succeed has come and gone... Then again i could be wrong, but things aren't looking good.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 21, 2015, 19:27:59 PM
Yeah i think it had a lot of people interested.. Somewhere down the line though its gotten slightly bigger than most of us thought it would.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 21, 2015, 19:39:54 PM
It's too bad. All they had to do was keep it simple, take some time to create a prototype and launch it properly on Kickstarter. They had momentum but completely blew it over the past month or so.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 22, 2015, 04:19:51 AM
This is just not going well.  The discussion on AA and FB is quite messy, sadly.  Not that the points being raised are not valid.  Then there's this article:  Please do not give Retro VGS any of your money (http://http) posted at SavyGamer.  And there there's this:  FPGA Based Videogame System (http://http).  This certainly has potential without costing so much and it does appear to be ready to emulate quite a few systems. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 22, 2015, 07:29:22 AM
One thing i HATE to see is sites telling people what to do, fair enough if its not for you dont buy it, but to tell people not to buy it is another example of lack of respect this generation, if it doesnt fund it doesnt fund, its not down to him to spread word not to buy into it, idiots like him really get on my tits (if u couldn't tell!).

Re the campaign, its a pity they didnt go with the original price model and ditch the fgpa to keep the cost down as that seems a big factor in people not pledging, the ngdev games dont even use the fgpa, people just wanted a cartridge machine again tbh.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 22, 2015, 09:37:37 AM
I agree fella. The guys behind this in my opinion are 100% genuine people looking to create something special. I just feel they have bitten more than they can chew with all the drama. Shame and I still hope. If it picks up I will invest.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 22, 2015, 23:59:19 PM
I'm with zap.  That's something that makes this turn of events unfortunate because I know these folks are trying to make something cool.  The FPGA is not a bad idea when you think about it.  Most of our retro consoles are quite old and will, at some point, break down.  It may not be possible to fix them.  Having an FPGA alternative that can play all those games (and that can also do it on a modern TV) does seem like a good, practical idea. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: nosweargamer on September 23, 2015, 00:21:56 AM
I think one of the problems was too much transparency in a way. If they came out today with the current price bring the only priced mention and not mentioning possible exclusives earlier they probably would have been better received. But when you for about a year talk about a $150-180 price point, possible exclusives from big name companies and doing a summer kickstarter, and then the price doubles, the games aren't exclusive and can be found cheaper elsewhere and even changing the crowdfunding time and site, it's bound to disappoint a lot of people's expectations.

But for me, it's a moot point as it is now out of my price range.  Even if I had $300, I'd be more tempted at this time to buy the Wii U Mario Maker bundle from Walmart.

I like the guys behind the system and want them to succeed, but it's not something I can afford right now.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 23, 2015, 05:51:28 AM
I think you have hit the nail on the head fella.

Has anyone reading this actually backed this project?
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: vandro on September 23, 2015, 15:50:20 PM
I haven't.  Starting to feel glad I chose not too...
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 23, 2015, 16:02:18 PM
It really hasn't moved.  It's at 3% funded and it has pretty much stayed there.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 23, 2015, 16:43:16 PM
Shame. It's being picked up by the big news sites now. If it has any chance it will be over the next few days or it's over I think.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 23, 2015, 19:29:31 PM
If it was on Kickstarter I probably would have backed it just to help with the numbers, and knowing that I wouldn't get billed unless it was successful. On IGG though you get billed as soon as you pledge and have to wait to get refunded if unsuccessful, which is a terrible business model if you ask me.

My opinion, they should pull the plug on this and work on a prototype. Once they have that relaunch it on KS and hope people look past this first campaign.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 23, 2015, 19:49:40 PM
Agreed I think that's the best option.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: rickreynolds on September 24, 2015, 18:46:07 PM
I backed it at the early-bird $300 level.  For me this is something I'd rather have than a PS4, Xbox One, or even a Wii U.  I really hope they can make it happen, because I like the possibilities of this platform.  But I recognize that it isn't looking good at this point.

The idea of slowing down the pace until they have a real prototype and then attempting a relaunch on kickstarter is something I thought of as well.  Heck, I'd be happy to contribute to a smaller "help us make a prototype" kind of fund before such a kickstarter.  Maybe there's hope for this campaign if something big happens to get more eyeballs onto it.  But I don't know.

I was a bit shocked by the higher price tag than was previously announced, but the extra $100 isn't that much of a big deal for me.  I understand not everyone is in that position.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 24, 2015, 23:47:17 PM
I have to agree.  I think it would be good move now to stop the campaign, get a working prototype and then relaunch in Kickstarter.  I do like the entire concept and the possibility of playing games from various consoles is not bad either.  As I said before, all the consoles are old and there will come a point where it won't be possible to repair them.  Something like this, with FPGA, is a good alternative. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 24, 2015, 23:49:59 PM
If they do that I will back it.  I would say so would you Trek and your Shadow. Now multiply that by the amount of people like us that are disappointed and you have a successful campaign.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 25, 2015, 00:10:57 AM
You're right.  I would.  :) 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Greyfox on September 25, 2015, 11:24:07 AM
now at a mere $65,970 USD after 6 day should be double. Understandable that with what makes my mind boggle is all that time working up to showcasing the machine that they had absolutely no form of prototype, even running off a circuit board on a block of wood showing and reassuring people of something that is actually real and tangible running a campaign based on having faith in the hopefully event of producing a prototype and then possible followed by a kick-starter campaign to produce it on an industry level? why 2 million to produce a prototype? but I suspect that the people will get those offer machines on the indigogo campaign. Whay didn't they have something physical to show after all this time up to the preparation of the fund raiser?

The same thing happen with the Icontroller 2 from the crew behind over expensive Pandora handheld, they guy behind the Icontroller jumped ship and sailed off into the sunset, now I'm not saying these will do that, but it's drawing on the same form of idea execution regarding needing money to produce this prototype like this.

As with what a lot of people have concerns about here, that fact they've used a fund raiser company not liked or endorsed as a viable way to go in funding something of this nature because their terms allow for a project of this type to be funded without a physical prototype, were as kick starter been the bigger of the two companies enforced these rules because many people were scamming backers out of their money claiming to be creating physical products when they were blowing the money of themselves.

I have faith in lots of products been produced these days, god knows some of them been crazy and off the wall been backed, so you'd think why not this?. I personally think they've taken a gamble on this and so far is proving to have been a bad one. But stranger things have happened, they might be an investor out there who will swoop in and give this the life it deserves.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 25, 2015, 22:02:49 PM
I do feel for [member=5080]ReadRetro[/member] (Mike) and his team, sadly i see this going down as an epic fail. Not through a lack of trying, more a lack of understanding the demograph they are going for.

Both Spectrum hardware products succeeded within days without any real prototype hardware.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Ben on September 26, 2015, 15:09:09 PM
Quote from: "zapiy"
Not through a lack of trying, more a lack of understanding the demograph they are going for.
That was always my problem with it and I think it hurt equally as much as the price jump along with Indiegogo.  In the U.S., I could buy for $170 (just under the original cost):
For $80 a refurbished small form IBM ThinkCentre that could emulate any console through the 32 bit era easily running Linux or a BSD.  I could then buy a high quality USB gamepad to go with it for around $40.
For $50 a quality used Dreamcast with controller I could obtain new indie/homebrew games for + plus play native Dreamcast games and even emulate some older consoles.

The reason to back it would be for exclusive retro style games and the cartridge format, if that is really important to you.  I don't really care too much about disc vs. cartridge but I would have been up for a new "retro" console with exclusives.  $300 for what was looking more and more like a console that wouldn't have exclusives and that I could achieve more or less the same with using a refurbished PC + Dreamcast at $170 just doesn't make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 26, 2015, 15:25:33 PM
You cant really compare it to emulation machines or which i find strange ps4, xb1, but because and simple they wanted a new cartridge machine and people who purely want that format without installing, updates etc
Its a sound idea, but there clearly isnt enough support for a niche product like this, even at $199 i think it would have struggled getting what they are asking for.
Defo inidiegogo killed this before it got going, a mistake they were pointed out befored doing so, they even admitted KS would allow non prototype products but they didnt want people to get the wrong impression, so i suppose its damned if you dont and damned if you do scenero!
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 26, 2015, 18:01:17 PM
I am gutted is all i can say.. where do they go now?
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 27, 2015, 02:08:23 AM
I just watched this and thought I'd share it...

[align=center:icz80bik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPn7r3tg8I8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZa4Pw75bdc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZa4Pw75bdc)[/align:icz80bik]
Title: Re: Retro VGS
Post by: Greyfox on September 27, 2015, 12:42:13 PM
Omg after watching that and with zero investors as of from 2 days ago this is now most definitely appearing a still birth.

I think that need to walk back to the meeting room and get a functioning prototype together and do a kickstarter!
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: nosweargamer on September 27, 2015, 13:11:45 PM
Quote from: "Greyfox"
Omg after watching that and with zero investors as of from 2 days ago this is now most definitely appearing a still birth.

I think that need to walk back to the meeting room and get a functioning prototype together and do a kickstarter!

I think you may be right.

I haven't been able to do lot of audio recording lately, but I did get a few moments to record this video.
In it I summarize how the Retro VGS became a mess and 5 steps on how it can win gamers like myself back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfZwNCLC0tU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfZwNCLC0tU)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Greyfox on September 27, 2015, 14:24:00 PM
Some great and valid point there fella, but I think the rot has already settled in now. They would need to firstly give everybody back there money and drop Indigogo altogether now, and go off and replace the time they've wasted all those months previous or to the fact of the person "Kevitris" who had a FPGA board near completion for them and now wait until the new tech they have on board has done his Prototype board and then restart the kick-starter.

Although they've had to dealt with a lot of abuse from the internet communities over how badly they've conducted themselves, a lot of people know that they are sincere in there proposal, they are way off the mark in their pricing and it has nothing to do with them been inexperienced to me, or that fact that they need finances to help keep them a float in the future months, secondly they have absolutely no QA team in place either for beat testing the machine, the games etc. even that wouldn't cost the asking price. Their chip-set architecture they are planning can be bought from china for 50 bucks or less in bulk as an FPGA chipset ready to go

Quote
John Carlsen has confirmed 2 important things:

They have settled on a spec of 16,000 DhryMIPS for the ARM processor and that he's currently using a Rockchip 3188 for prototyping. He states that is their minimum. That also means there's no assurance it will be a Quad Core A9 rather than a faster speed Dual Core, which would better benefit Indie games i'd believe.

The machine will use more than 1GB of RAM, though Several GB of RAM is not necessary for it's function. So, if it gets 2GB of RAM it's as powerful as the Wii U probably, lol.

So, at least those are settled. I just wish Mike Kennedy would stop acting like Gamers are buying a dream and not hardware, John Carlsen is a great hardware guy but likes to keep from public speaking.

something like this : Ebay (http://http)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Papa on September 27, 2015, 14:25:24 PM
I sure hope they do get it back on track.  There are enough games out there today done in the older style to have a lot of great software without the need to have adapters for older systems. 

Great vid NSG.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 27, 2015, 16:02:33 PM
That's a good video, nosweargamer, and it makes valid points.  We all want to see this succeed but there are things that need to be changed to garner our support.  Your five recommendations are on point. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 27, 2015, 17:54:12 PM
Brilliant video NSG and I think from RVG's point of view we have at least 7 people singing from the same hymn sheet on this. So expanding these feelings across the net you can see this could be successful if they listen to a few people.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 27, 2015, 20:42:24 PM
The VGS team has been interviewed by RGM.  Check out the interview here (both audio and text):  RGM INTERVIEW WITH RETRO VGS TEAM (UNOFFICIAL COPY FROM AUDIO INTERVIEW) (http://http).
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 28, 2015, 21:13:51 PM
Ok, just going back to post #153, these guys have valid opinions but i somehow feel that they are missing this point.

They mentioned that not having these system online so games can be fixed as a mistake.. That's supposed the be the reason, that its not online. Yes games will have bugs but that's the risk we all take, i doubt that's the reason this is unsuccessful..
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Greyfox on September 28, 2015, 21:59:43 PM
Omg it's gone ??!? It's now going back on the numbers, now at 64,xxx. Do they really think it's going to become a reality, I've never seen this before were backer reseed their backing? It his has to be a first. Very sad case of affairs it really is. They shouldn't have believed that introducing a machine targeted mainly at collectors which so many have raised as one of the major reasons this has sunk.

Maybe phase of a restart will hopefully get it right and people will invest in it.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 28, 2015, 22:02:02 PM
Nah its happened loads mate, just more noticeable at such a low amount.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 28, 2015, 22:47:27 PM
Yep, I agree with Zap.  People do withdraw support for projects, that's not a surprise. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on September 29, 2015, 17:01:32 PM
Project getting pulled from Indiegogo, will be relaunched when a prototype ready, and hopefully on kickstarter!
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 29, 2015, 17:12:14 PM
Good to see they're not completely blind! Hopefully this first attempt didn't do too much damage and they can come back later with a better plan.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 29, 2015, 18:44:44 PM
Is that official?
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 29, 2015, 19:07:40 PM
Yeah, here's the update from their IGG page.

Quote
Hey Everyone! Its clear, in its current state the RETRO VGS Indiegogo campaign is dead in the water and thusly will be shut down early. Once the Indiegogo team explains to us how we can do this, the plug will be pulled and all of you who have contributed will receive a refund post haste. Or you can go in and request a refund from Indiegogo right now.

The good news is we arent giving up and have made some adjustments to our hardware team, which includes the involvement of... other hardware gurus who were part of our venture in the very beginning. We will also be lowering the price while maintaining most of the cool features you all want.

We will be back in the near future with a prototype RETRO VGS system, front-and-center playing our games on our cartridges and with our USB controller. Sit tight, be patient and RETRO VGS will return.

Thanks again for your support, patience and understanding while we regroup and prepare for the relaunch of a new crowdfunding campaign.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 29, 2015, 19:39:34 PM
Wait till Feb next year and go for it.. Certainly not this side of xmas now. :113:
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 30, 2015, 03:06:30 AM
Cool.  Good to see they listened to what was being said.  This will ensure they get support next time.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 30, 2015, 06:04:10 AM
Well, I don't think this will guarantee any success, looking at some comments around the net proves there are many haters and people that are not at all into this system regardless of what the guys do.. That is sad, but that is life. If they remedy some of the previously mentioned issues, they I hope they get a winning chance and they we most like get the support of us.. (if that really matters)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 30, 2015, 19:24:54 PM
Yeah, hard to say if people will give them a second chance or not.

This probably won't help either, Carlsen has jumped ship.

From facebook:
Quote
As Mike had alluded yesterday, after about seven months of hard work I have recently decided to leave the Retro VGS team.
 
Before I go, I would like to thank every one of our loyal and vocal fans, including our critics, for showing us that you care about our project. I would especially like to thank our backers for their willingness to fund our massive development project and to wait a year to be the first to play our new video game system.
 
I have enjoyed reconnecting with Steve Woita, who was my colleague at Mediagenic 25 years ago, and getting to know Mike Kennedy, whose warmhearted enthusiasm for retro gaming brought our team together and built a community around it.
 
Together, we learned a lot, both good and bad. We learned how to offer high-quality, modern games on high-performance cartridges for reasonable prices. We learned how we could offer a system that performs more like a PlayStation 3 than a Raspberry Pi 2 for only a negligible difference in price. (By the way, I dont mean to knock either of these two great products by making these comparisons.) We learned the costs of shipping complete systems individually to nearly anywhere in the world, and that it costs significantly more than stuffing tube socks into a flat-rate box. Although we already knew we would save massive up-front development costs, we learned how much re-using the former Jaguar case adds to the price of each unit. Over time, we learned each others strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately, we also learned that outsiders would fraudulently claim to be part of our team and accept credit for our work, sometimes while defaming it and us in the process.
 
Despite all this, I still believe that video games can once again be reasonably free of defects before they are released, just as Nintendo did with its Seal of Quality program, and that cartridges can extend the maximum size of physical distribution media beyond what has remained stagnant for nearly a decade. As weve seen through a recent patent, Nintendo appears to be on the right path.
 
I have enjoyed working and solving many of the unique and interesting problems this project has presented, and can only hope that Im granted a similar opportunity in the future.
Although I am saddened that this work has not yielded a viable product, I take pride in knowing that we created a good design and offered it at a fair price through an honest campaign, and made many friends in the process.
 
Sincerely yours,
John Carlsen
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on September 30, 2015, 19:43:47 PM
Hmm, that's not good news.  Time will tell.  I guess we have to wait and see what develops in the end and what the prototype looks like.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on September 30, 2015, 22:15:28 PM
Who is paying for the proto i wonder?
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: Shadowrunner on September 30, 2015, 22:40:02 PM
Yeah I'm not sure. Mike has always said he has a full time day job as well, or they could always make more coloured Jaguar shells and carts to sell.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: sunteam_paul on October 02, 2015, 19:18:51 PM
I think they've lost so much of the good will of their core audience that they will struggle to get support for a relaunch. Everyone is focussed on Kevtris's own project now.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on October 02, 2015, 19:33:16 PM
Kevtris's project is really good and may have more of an audience that the Retro VGS right now.  I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on October 02, 2015, 20:39:20 PM
Yeah, who will have the best support to actually make it viable will come out on top.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on October 02, 2015, 22:01:14 PM
I take it this kevtris is the bloke who agreed in all but writing to work with the RVGS team, but pulled out and now thinks he can go alone?
I certainly dont think he has more coverage than RVGS, i havent heard anything about what he is doing or plans for it to be made?
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on October 02, 2015, 23:44:13 PM
Discussion about it is going in at AA. 
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on October 03, 2015, 08:13:29 AM
Thats why ive never heard of it then  :10:
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: sunteam_paul on October 03, 2015, 08:53:47 AM
In a nutshell, they were going to licence the cores that Kevtris was developing, but it got to a point where they bailed on meeting with him, then stated that the machine wasn't likely to use FPGA, meaning Kevtris' work wouldn't be used. So he decided to show people what he'd been working on and the comminuty got really excited by his stuff and not theirs. They started slagging him off and the rest is history.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on October 03, 2015, 10:35:47 AM
Why is the retro community so disjointed. We should all be supporting each other.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on October 03, 2015, 14:07:05 PM
Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
In a nutshell, they were going to licence the cores that Kevtris was developing, but it got to a point where they bailed on meeting with him, then stated that the machine wasn't likely to use FPGA, meaning Kevtris' work wouldn't be used. So he decided to show people what he'd been working on and the comminuty got really excited by his stuff and not theirs. They started slagging him off and the rest is history.
Well i always like to hear both sides of the story before i judge people, but the Indiegogo campaign had the machine with FPGA so not sure how recent this fallout is.
Plus the NGDev games dont use the FPGA anyway, so to get it the cheapest they can and what people want its the only way forward to even hope to get this machine funded.
I will wait and see for both options, if someone can keep us updated on the other machine on RvG, i tend to steer clear of AA nowadays.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: zapiy on October 03, 2015, 14:22:59 PM
Will do chap. I am interested in how things progress from now and I guess it depends how business is conducted to who gets my money.
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on October 03, 2015, 14:23:15 PM
I've started a thread for it:  FPGA Based Game System (http://http)
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: AmigaJay on October 03, 2015, 14:39:29 PM
Nice one, thanks  :113:
Title: Re: Retro VGS: New Retro Game Console
Post by: TrekMD on October 03, 2015, 14:41:35 PM
That thread in AA is already 12 pages long, so you may want to look through it.