Dreamcast Vs. PlayStation 2

[Rogue Trooper]

Next couple:

Transformers-Something i've completed on SD TV, off to a grand start, W/S, 60 Hz options, Surround sound, sort of things i expect from a PS2 game as standard.

Bearing in mind 1st level is Aztec temple/jungle setting, thought it'd be idea game to check for that blury look to textures and shimmering when moving, yep there they both were, yet things like light beams looked great.

Followed that by Mark Of Kri, No 60 Hz or W/S options i could see, so had to endure small, but noticable borders.

Ground textures etc looked fine, shimmering came into effect on textures of stone walls, thatched roof etc when moving.

[Rogue Trooper]

Tried a few more:

Freak Out, 50 Hz only and MASSIVE borders!, but other wise visually fine, but then has it's own graphical style.

Rygar, again, 50 Hz only, walls, pillars, floors etc (anything with a stone texture) had the shimmer when moving, as for the grass etc, bleegh, a green vomit look, blotchy, speckled mess.

Shinobi a 60 Hz option thank god, slight shimmer to ground texture when moving, chopper spotlight beams looked fine.

Kuri Kuri Mix, 50 Hz only (again) as well as MASSIVE fecking borders, shocking to see these on a PS2 title and as with Freak Out espically when restricted to 50 Hz only, but no shimmering issues as such.

[Rogue Trooper]

Have to say, finding the PS2 as a gaming machine VERY similar to my exp.when owning an N64.

On paper, both promised an awful lot in terms of increases in power over their rivals (N64 VS PS1, PS2 VS DC), yet in reality, comprimises had to be made and the video out on both was very dissapointing.

In terms of audio, stero sound is far more common in PS2 games than Dolby Pro Logic II from games i've tried, let alone the claimed Dolby 5.1, would appear that just as in case of N64, sound requires processing power, so it's got to be a case of comprimising on 1 area so as you don't starve another.

Games like Fatal Frame (Project Zero) really did work far better on Xbox thanks to the wonderful atmosphere generated by audio being in 5.1 surround.

Visually? seeing a lot of low res textures, repeated textures, as i did on N64, but there you had cartridge limitations, here it appears to be texture Ram, as PS2 often streaming assests off DVD.The repeated textures issue is a nightmare in games with a strict time limit as, due to everything looking the same, it's so easy to get lost and you end up going in circles, just trying to find your way out of an area you've already cleared.

PS2 seems great at delivering lighting effects, huge bosses, but looking at things like the Devil May Cry or Onimusha series, your talking pre-rendered backdrops, something i thought more at home on PS1 era hardware.

Also surprised not see more advances made in A.I, things like Gran Turismo still using the same, weak A.I routines from the PS1 series, Quake 3 bots being dumber than DC versions.

In the right hands, with decent development tools, BOTH the N64 and PS2 played host to some stunning games, but found on both i'm having to scale back expectations and cut through more 'chaff' than expected, to get at the 'wheat'.

Good job PS2 games i want to try are, in the main, cheap to pick up. :-)

[Rogue Trooper]

The PS2 'Visual Experiment' continues...

Tenchu:Wrath Of Heaven. Where do i start? Nightmare camera, 'murky' visuals (brown+grey seem very in), slowdown, poor A.I and only 50 Hz.


Socom:US Navy seals, decnt enough A.I, 50 Hz (and borders), buildings seem to dissapear into a 'Pea-Souper' when viewed close up.


The Red Star, 50 Hz, borders, Dolby Pro Logic II, no sign of the 'shimmering' via component.

Shadow Of Memories.50 Hz, borders textures 'blur' whe moving, the solidify once i stop moving.

Ratio of 50 Hz only games to that of having 60 Hz seems quite biased towards 50 Hz so far, not a good sign.

[Crusto]

Even on CRT, the picture on my ps2 was crap. Mainly because I was using the standard leads. Once I upgraded to a gold scart the difference was huge. It was pin sharp in comparison, so much so that even my lovely wife passed comment. She doesn't usually notice things like that lol.

I've had it hooked up to my LCD a number of times, and now that I think of it, I was using a LCD set quite some time before having the likes of the 360 etc, so my PS2 would have featured heavily under it. I don't remember any disappointment back then, and I wasn't disappointed recently either. Of course, it looks weak compared to the newer stuff but that's a given.

Dare I suggest RT that maybe your PS2 might be a little jaded? I dunno, just seems strange that its so poor for you. I suppose you don't have a CRT lying around somewhere so you can play it the way god intended, and make sure it's not on the blink at the same time.

As for the DC, I never owned one...

[Rogue Trooper]

Even on CRT, the picture on my ps2 was crap. Mainly because I was using the standard leads. Once I upgraded to a gold scart the difference was huge. It was pin sharp in comparison, so much so that even my lovely wife passed comment. She doesn't usually notice things like that lol.

I've had it hooked up to my LCD a number of times, and now that I think of it, I was using a LCD set quite some time before having the likes of the 360 etc, so my PS2 would have featured heavily under it. I don't remember any disappointment back then, and I wasn't disappointed recently either. Of course, it looks weak compared to the newer stuff but that's a given.

Dare I suggest RT that maybe your PS2 might be a little jaded? I dunno, just seems strange that its so poor for you. I suppose you don't have a CRT lying around somewhere so you can play it the way god intended, and make sure it's not on the blink at the same time.

As for the DC, I never owned one...

As i mentioned earlier, a CRT does disguise an awful lot of picture blemishes, which HD will highlight.PS2 is working fine, it's just Sony's hardware has so many comprimises made to it, pushing polys is fine, but when it comes at cost of restricted texture Ram and poor video out, let alone 'faking' a games res, a la MGS3, where PS2 hardware upscales an image before putting it to TV screen (which my TV then upscales again) bound to be issues.

It's not just the video 'quality' that's a dissapointment, but Sony clearly over hyped the audio cabilities, Dolby Pro Logic is best i've seen for in-game, as for proclaimed 5.1? only seen it in 1 game, MGS 2 and that's cutscenes.


It's been an interesting experiment and like i said earlier PS2 will never be anything more than another N64 for myself, gulf between claimed power and actual power, some very decent games, but it'll never be a system i collect for or cherish the way i did my MD, PS1, DC etc.

So many of the games i've yet to try on it are avaiable on Xbox and i know that looks fine via component on my TV, so that's the version i'll be getting either that or the PSP version.

As a DC owner, hearing the hype that PS2 had grown up and middleware had solved the development difficulties etc, quite shocked by poor 60 Hz support and games that just ar'nt blowing the DC equiv.out of the water.

[dcultrapro]

yeah I was shocked to see no option to turn either of the God Of War games into 60hz or widescreen, they are benchmarks of graphical quality on the PS2 and ok the standard picture looks ok on my LED with a component cable but I can tell the textures are pretty low res and the colours are not filtering through very well. Though it is far better than it ever was via scart or RCA and it does look nice by comparison. Still the DC picture just looks a lot clearer imo

[tomwaits]

The US versions of God of War 1 & 2 run at 480p/16:9 and might be the best looking games for the system. But, this article explains the lack of 480p for the PAL version:

http://spong.com/article/12309/God-of-W ... or-No-480p

[Rogue Trooper]

yeah I was shocked to see no option to turn either of the God Of War games into 60hz or widescreen, they are benchmarks of graphical quality on the PS2 and ok the standard picture looks ok on my LED with a component cable but I can tell the textures are pretty low res and the colours are not filtering through very well. Though it is far better than it ever was via scart or RCA and it does look nice by comparison. Still the DC picture just looks a lot clearer imo

Good call there, i mean long and the short of it is, PS2 like ANY platform has had it's share of poor ports, poor optimised games etc, but when Sony themselves cannot be arsed to put something like a 60 Hz or at very least a bloody W/S display option in 2 of their flagship titles, the 2nd right towards the end of the PS's era as a key console, then to me it speaks volumes.

How could they put pressure on other developers to include features they themselves are'nt putting in?.

Packing up the PS2 tonight, just cannot be doing with a console which deals in such half measures on so many areas.It's NOT the console Sony sold to the world, nor many have claimed it to be, in my experience.

[Rogue Trooper]

The US versions of God of War 1 & 2 run at 480p/16:9 and might be the best looking games for the system. But, this article explains the lack of 480p for the PAL version:

http://spong.com/article/12309/God-of-W ... or-No-480p

'Funny' how Sony were'nt concerned about noticable picture quality on God Of war HD collection Vol 1 (not tried Vol 2) as the cutscenes are kept in original video image and look bloody awful when upscaled, yet entire game had a true HD make over....

[dcultrapro]

that excuse was utter rubbish honestly. I mean the console either runs at 480p/60hz across the board or it doesn't. Dreamcast does 60hz in all regions and isn't restricted by resolution differences based on region etc, what a crock

[Rogue Trooper]

To me, the PS2 often seems little more than a collection of excuses, 60 Hz support seems few and far between, it cannot do Dolby 5.1 in anything other than cut-scenes as the hardware cannot processs it in-game, so pointless Sony proclaiming it part of the hardware, from gaming point of view, it's not pushing the 66 Million Polys in game either.

The Getaway was not the 2nd coming Sony claimed it would be, the hardware is throttled by PS2's small, on-chip Ram, thus leading to 'murky' visuals, drab and flat  textures in so many games.

Seems a lot of games are rendering in around 640X240 and so look rough on HD TV's, so for Sony to say they were concerned about image quality in PS2 God Of War is laughable, where was the Ram the system so badly needed? the ability to render an image at 640X480, 60 Hz and send image to TV after flicker filtering, like DC had? why do games like Ico, MGS3 etc force hardware to cheat in terms of the resolution?.

Mines been packed away and very doubtful it'll have that status changed any time soon.

[Crusto]

Miserable bastard 

[Rogue Trooper]

Miserable bastard 

Very true.

All that time, wated on pea-souper PS2 titles, looking for W/S and 60 Hz options that don't exist, pissing around with cables and TV settings trying to get decent picture, could have been spent GAMING on my Dreamcast.....

[Crusto]

Why torture yourself? Have another stint at demons souls instead good sir.