1/4 of the Achivements in the upcoming Tomb Raider reboot are tied to the multi-player side of the game, which is being done by a seperate team to the main game.

Yet another SP game having multiplayer tacked on, just to tick a check box come review?.

I will honestly be soo happy if the Playstation is finished after this gen. Seriously I know I'm "flaming" or "trolling" or whatever other label you wanna sling but I will always feel in my heart that Sony ruined the gaming market in general, turning it from a place of creativity and fun into a financially driven sales behemoth with all the shit they spurted out on the PS1.

I know they aren't the only guilty party in this current get but when the Playstation came out video games were fun and video game fans were regarded with disdain in the most part, then the Playstation arrived and suddenly it was COOL to play video games... BUT ONLY if you owned a Playstation. If you had a Saturn you were looked upon almost as if you had two heads and lived under a bridge.

but at least we had our wonderful hobby that wasn't stained with the likes of Tony Hawks 23, Fifa 756, tiger woods 89 and all the other franchises that they milked dry for their millions.

Bring back the good old days of creative design and no pressure to make something that would sell. That's why the DC will always be my favourite console, it was the last bastion of hope for video gamers in a world driven by financial gain rather than video game originality/creativity

I know they weren't the only ones that contributed to the current situation, but they certainly had a massive hand in instigating the change to the industry in 96/97 when the PS1 took off

Interesting to see Tony Hawks mentioned...

I grew up with Activision games on formats like the 2600+C64, games like Hero, Hacker, River Raid, Pitfall, LCP, Alter Ego, Portal etc, then in later years, loved (Pandemic's) PC Battlezone 1+2 games.

But todays Activision is so reliant on likes of COD/MW and licences, it's unreal.

Then you've likes of Team 17:Look at the output in the Amiga days:Worms, Body Blows, Alien Breed, Assassin, Project-X, Kingpin, ATR, Full Contact, Qwak, Super Frog etc.Look at them now....

Thought of another example of MS in terms of way they do buisness:

Remember Curly Monsters 'Quantum Redshift'? it came about as part of a 2-Game deal the company signed with MS (made up by Ex-Psygnosis staff) as MS wanted something on Xbox to go up again'st PS2 Wipeout:Fusion, but after only 1 game, MS walked away from the deal, leaving studio with no cash.They could'nt afford to fight MS, so studio closed.

The more you look into the industry as a whole, think you'll see the way ALL corporations do buisness and way games companies have drastically changed, as far as output is concerned, over the years.

Sony deserves a lot of the flak it gets, but they are far from the only guns firing.....

It should be noted on the above that this has nothing to do with Sony Computer Entertainment...

Erm, SCE is part of Sony Corporation is it not?!!!

The heads-up/news I posted was, as I intimated, only meant to further highlight the financial plight of Sony. It wasn't intended as anything else per se.

I will honestly be soo happy if the Playstation is finished after this gen. Seriously I know I'm "flaming" or "trolling" or whatever other label you wanna sling but I will always feel in my heart that Sony ruined the gaming market in general, turning it from a place of creativity and fun into a financially driven sales behemoth with all the shit they spurted out on the PS1.

I know they aren't the only guilty party in this current get but when the Playstation came out video games were fun and video game fans were regarded with disdain in the most part, then the Playstation arrived and suddenly it was COOL to play video games... BUT ONLY if you owned a Playstation. If you had a Saturn you were looked upon almost as if you had two heads and lived under a bridge.

but at least we had our wonderful hobby that wasn't stained with the likes of Tony Hawks 23, Fifa 756, tiger woods 89 and all the other franchises that they milked dry for their millions.

Bring back the good old days of creative design and no pressure to make something that would sell. That's why the DC will always be my favourite console, it was the last bastion of hope for video gamers in a world driven by financial gain rather than video game originality/creativity

I know they weren't the only ones that contributed to the current situation, but they certainly had a massive hand in instigating the change to the industry in 96/97 when the PS1 took off

One of the very best posts I've ever read on an internet videogaming forum. Superb.

As RT since stated, there's nothing 'trolling' or 'flaming' about your words. You've expressed an honest opinion. If Sony fanboys get all prissy because your opinion doesn't chime with their views then that's their problem and they really ought to grow a pair if they feel angered. One of the great things about this forum is that it doesn't tolerate the kind of retarded fanboy crap that blights certain other videogaming forums. Long may it continue.

Agreed 100% with both of the DC boys

It should be noted on the above that this has nothing to do with Sony Computer Entertainment...

Erm, SCE is part of Sony Corporation is it not?!!!

The heads-up/news I posted was, as I intimated, only meant to further highlight the financial plight of Sony. It wasn't intended as anything else per se.

Indeed it is, but i'm still rather unsure of just who's 'endgame' you've your fingers crossed for..(as you mentioned in your orig.post).Since the GAMING division IS making money, they'd be among last to go, where as the TV+Camera side i'd expect to see closed down long before that.

Indeed it is, but i'm still rather unsure of just who's 'endgame' you've your fingers crossed for..(as you mentioned in your orig.post).Since the GAMING division IS making money, they'd be among last to go, where as the TV+Camera side i'd expect to see closed down long before that.

Ha! That little remark of mine was just wishful thinking on my part that if Sony Corporation goes down the tubes then SCE would be taken down with it. Don't deny me my dreams, RT! 

Whilst i COULD fill the internet with my personal rants at Sony over the sheer arrogance the company has towards customers from PS2 era onwards, i'm rather keen to find from others just what it is exactly that makes them think the Playstation killed creativity.

Just very curious to know what it did that say 3DO or Saturn or Nintendo did'nt do....

Thinking of the games on Playstation:

Tomb Raider-can be traced back to Jaguar CD, origins wise, Resident Evil, back to Nes (Home sweet Home?), Loaded started out on SNES, Alien Trilogy on MCD, it had a lot of PC conversions (Magic Carpet, Doom, Dark Forces, WC3+4, MDK, Xcom, Terror From The Deep etc etc).

Then there's follow up's to Amiga/MD/SNES games:Soviet+Nuclear Strike, Micro Machines V3, Contra, Castlevania, Fade To Black, Syndicate Wars, etc.

FF7 would have been on N64 (early footage was shown) but Nintendo went with carts, so Square jumped to PS1 instead.

It had Arcade conversions, 3DO ports (Starfighter 3000, Return Fire, Space Hulk etc), Jaguar games arrived on it (Rayman and Tempest 3000), think Iron Solider 3 1st appeared on NUON, later ported to PS1.

It had SNES/MD ports:Mickeys Wild Adventure, Super Dropzone, EWJ etc.

It had new versions of classic games:Pitfall 3D, Ballblazer Champions, Speedball, Blam Machine Head was 'spirtual' follow up to Battlecorps MCD, Thunderhawk followed on from Amiga, then MCD games.

Original games wise? off top of my head:Depth, Parappa The Rapper, Overboard, Pysbadek, Wipeout-you can trace the origins back to ST/Amiga Powerdrome+SNES F-Zero, plus Sega had it's own take on hover racing with Gran Chaser, Bull Frog with High Octane, then there's Schrdingers cat, Kings Field, Topolo, City Crisis, Silent Hill,  Aquanauts Holiday etc.

It had Retro compiliations from Namco, Capcom, Williams etc.

And as for killing of creative ideas, are we honestly forgetting the Net Yaroze Playstation, which was released to actively encourage hobbysists to create their own games?.

I personally feel 'The Rot' set in with PS2 era:Making the machine SO hard to code, giving it limited Ram, All the UTTER bollox about Emotion Engine, about 75 Million Polys per second, about it's Dolby 5.1 (yeah, great, can use it for cut scenes, other wise far to processor intensive), they set out to destroy the DC based on 'On-Paper' specs, which had NO realation to in-game performance.

Even in the later days, the online side of PS2 did little to create solid foundations for PSN for PS3, which left them playing catch-up this gen.

Eye Toy has a LOT to answer for! (ie bloody Kinect), MOVE was in R+D alongside it, yet STILL lacks a killer App.

In all honesty? i'd LOVE the PS4 to return to it's PS1 era roots, a ctting edge GAMES ONLY console who's hardware not only takes the industry by surprise, but is used to deliver fantastic games.

Great as the media aspects of the PS3 are (use it a lot more for music+video than my 360), i want a dedicated gaming platform once more.

Anyway, back on track, point i'm making regarding the Playstation, whilst it went after it's core market (much the same way Nintendo did with DS+Wii) had SONY not bothered to continue developing the Playstation after the CD Drive deal with Nintendo went sour, what's to say a vast number of it's games would'nt have appeared on say Saturn?

Are we honestly saying here it's fine for Nintendo to keep bringing out new installments of it's franchises on it's platforms, for Atari to bring likes of Defender, Joust, Tempest etc to Jaguar, for Sega to convert it's arcade games to it's platforms (Saturn+DC0 and yet they encouraged creativity in a way Sony did not?.

Indeed it is, but i'm still rather unsure of just who's 'endgame' you've your fingers crossed for..(as you mentioned in your orig.post).Since the GAMING division IS making money, they'd be among last to go, where as the TV+Camera side i'd expect to see closed down long before that.

Ha! That little remark of mine was just wishful thinking on my part that if Sony Corporation goes down the tubes then SCE would be taken down with it. Don't deny me my dreams, RT! 

As much as i'd hate to see folks loose their jobs, i for the LIFE of me CANNOT fathom WHY Sony keeps on bothering with the Camera+TV side of the buisness.They've been over taken on quality+VFM in both areas, years ago and since the 2 sides are not turning a profit, pointless having them.

4K TV's are NOT the answer!

Agreed 100% with both of the DC boys

🙂 But, you do agree that even without SONY, Activision would still be just as 'Evil', same for E.A?

Sony just having provided ANOTHER platform+user base for them to hawk their wares to.

Niether E.A nor Activision are the companies i once knew.

I agree with that too 

So has the gaming industry changed or have we just not adapted?

I think its a case of both, onthinice, it has definitely changed for the worse and we all here have obviously not adapted in the way they would want lol

RT: My comments regarding the Playstation were more aimed at its aggressive and successful campaign to make a video games console a cool piece of kit that every kid HAD TO HAVE... instead of the geeky frowned upon hobby that it had always been up until that point, or at least that's the impression of the hobby that I always had when I was a kid.

as I said in another post I fully concede that Sony has done no more or less in terms of dodgy dealings etc this generation, if anything Microsoft are causing more harm than good themselves. And obviously the PS2 was the first major sign that Sony was giving in to its financial urges, they saw the response to the Playstation and dollar signs chi-chinged into their eyes as they plotted and schemed on how to cash in with the PS2 and I tip my hat to them their plan worked out BRILLIANTLY. They fooled the masses who loved the PS1 into thinking the PS2 was a must buy, even though, IMHO, it was a piece of utter garbage, and they ran laughing and skipping all the way to the bank.

I wasn't saying the Playstation 1 was itself SOLELY at fault as a console, rather I was intimating that the Playstation BRAND on the whole was pretty instrumental in transforming the gaming industry as I knew it into a massive bloated cash cow for shady conglomerates to take advantage of

my two cents

Now put two cents into the spin-off thread:

https://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7.msg20632;boardseen#ne w"> https://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/http:/ ... rdseen#new

I think its a case of both, onthinice, it has definitely changed for the worse and we all here have obviously not adapted in the way they would want lol

RT: My comments regarding the Playstation were more aimed at its aggressive and successful campaign to make a video games console a cool piece of kit that every kid HAD TO HAVE... instead of the geeky frowned upon hobby that it had always been up until that point, or at least that's the impression of the hobby that I always had when I was a kid.

as I said in another post I fully concede that Sony has done no more or less in terms of dodgy dealings etc this generation, if anything Microsoft are causing more harm than good themselves. And obviously the PS2 was the first major sign that Sony was giving in to its financial urges, they saw the response to the Playstation and dollar signs chi-chinged into their eyes as they plotted and schemed on how to cash in with the PS2 and I tip my hat to them their plan worked out BRILLIANTLY. They fooled the masses who loved the PS1 into thinking the PS2 was a must buy, even though, IMHO, it was a piece of utter garbage, and they ran laughing and skipping all the way to the bank.

I wasn't saying the Playstation 1 was itself SOLELY at fault as a console, rather I was intimating that the Playstation BRAND on the whole was pretty instrumental in transforming the gaming industry as I knew it into a massive bloated cash cow for shady conglomerates to take advantage of

my two cents

Think it was a Times reporter (not that i read the paper 🙂 ) that said of Sony's Playstation-It was the platform that took gaming out of the stigma that was normally associated with masterbaiting (i.e singular activity taking place in a darkened room and something you knew went on, but did'nt pop up in every day chat) and made it cool to talk about.

Since then, even PLAYBOY jumped in on the bandwagon of taking gaming into new areas,not just with the Playboy game, but inside the very magazine: 'Gaming Grows Up' had several videogame 'babes' with their kit off!

(Lasses from: Mortal Kombat, Blood Rayne, Leisure Suit Larry and Playboy:The Mansion)