Atari 130XE - Sio2SD socket

[Carlos]

Its clear to me that there are different ways of looking at modding older equipment, I would refer to Avic and Cryptics forums posts about this.

Healthy chat is good, and there are lots of readers learning from our efforts that we post on here, we are talking amongst equals on here, lets keep it that way.

I think what is trying to be said here is that there is a temptation to upgrade equipment to an outdated standard, therefore wasting effort, In this case this is not true.

To future proof tech in general is looking into a crystal ball at the best of times IMO.

YMMV

[retromod]

It depend how you do it. Why drilling into a 30 year old chasis if you are able to easily avoid it specially if you may use connectors or switches which are outdated after a while. Some websites are full with people recognizing that after a few years their mods are obsolete due to changes in standards and their are now faced with ugly holes. Good example is a s-video connector, if you use a cable instead of plugs you are flexible to undo if required (specially as s-video is rare these days) if not you are stuck with plugs looking ugly and are not useable anymore.

I modify systems because when I buy something...it's mine. I can change it in any way I like to optimise how it plays games. You know, the things that these run. I'm a gamer. I'm not running a museum.

Also I fail to see what the apparent rarity of S-Video has to do with anything. Every TV I have supports S-Video. The best video output you can get from the 130XE is S-Video, so I used S-Video. You follow?

Sure but if there is a way to avoid destroying things it is worth to think about it, right? As if i leave this world i can carry anything with me and may be in some years i sell the stuff for other people who are interested. If i destroy what is mine well then tomorrow me may have no device left at all. In my opinion it is only lend.... And of course s-video is outdated wait a few year until no tv set has it anymore like most New tv sets today. I asked here today at the discounter and guess 5 out of 50 have it currently.... Best output today is rgb not s-video of course

[avick]

But what you're forgetting is that quite a few people are using old CRT TV's, and will continue to do so for many years to come, especially as there is a plentiful supply of second hand units. As Carl said, each to their own everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and there is no definitive right or wrong, just personal choice.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Vyothric]

Sure but if there is a way to avoid destroying things it is worth to think about it, right?

Destroyed how exactly? It not only works, but works better than it used to. I think you need a dictionary.

And of course s-video is outdated wait a few year until no tv set has it anymore like most New tv sets today. I asked here today at the discounter and guess 5 out of 50 have it currently.... Best output today is rgb not s-video of course

As avick mentioned I use a CRT, as should every retro gamer. I have several of them. That's not going to change any time soon. Obviously I use RGB normally and only use S-Video when there's no other choice, such as this.

If you're going to base your entire retro gaming experience on what may happen at some indeterminate time in the future - That for some unknown reason you suddenly decide to sell everything and that people won't want to buy modified systems (which is nonsense, because they do), or after you die (in which case - so what) - then you're missing the point of retro gaming entirely.

[retromod]

But what you're forgetting is that quite a few people are using old CRT TV's, and will continue to do so for many years to come, especially as there is a plentiful supply of second hand units. As Carl said, each to their own everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and there is no definitive right or wrong, just personal choice.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

And that is quite ok but there are a lot countries you never get crt anymore like in germany. There are no part resellers either as the whole business went down the toilet due to european regulations. In my city there is only one shop left offering old rare parts. And nobody requests crt anymore, sure some still own these devices but there is nobody to repair it as there is no shop etc who offer that service anymore - thanks to the big discounters we only buy chinese products, repairs are not required as product cycle is lower than 6 month. So of course the crt tv's will be gone forever in about 10 years. And this is understandable because all new devices for video, hifi uses the latest and greatest connectors. Hdmi can not be used with crt tv at all. S-video vanished on discounters where all people buy new equipment. Rgb and av the last analog connectors in europe. All my consoles works fine with rgb or av, newer one only with hdmi. If you need the best output on old retro consoles use a digitizer card with hdmi output  on your laptop or use an emulator as it offers upscaling and antialiasing

As more and more retro consoles allow rgb mod or simple deliver it out of the box like coleco, intellivision, atari 7800 and now atari 2600 this is the way to go long term. Specially as a gamer i carry the console around to friends which of course having 3d hdmi super tv with up to 55 inch displays and surround system. Hdmi will not be really available due to license issues on that standard. Upscaler does not work below 640 pixels native output. The advantage of rgb is there is no ntsc/pal issues, too.

Atari homecomputers offers outdated s-video but also allow rgb by mod. And of course this is much better than s-video and allow to connect to latest tv sets even there is no s-video. Rgb is standard on any modern hdmi display as most video processors for hdmi are offered with rgb and av support.

I own a tuned atari xl computer with s-video but can not find a tv for it. The av output is worse due to the super video mod. Full of artefacts as it uses the bad original components. The person who modded this machine now offers av only as his customers told him they are unable to find suitable tv sets. Bad because the mod makes an rgb update very difficulty due to the changes on the mainboard.

[TL]

I know LOADS of German people who still use a CRT so I don't accept that at all honestly and I don't see what it has to do with the thread anyway?

He made a mode, he likes and it works. End of story. If you don't like it then that is not his problem.

Personally I don't own anything modded and have no interest in doing so because I want to keep all my hardware original. But I have no problem with anyone who do wants to mod stuff, they bought it and they can do what they like with it. Some of the stuff people have managed to do with old hardware is pretty amazing actually.

[guest5112]

Sure but if there is a way to avoid destroying things it is worth to think about it, right?

Destroyed how exactly? It not only works, but works better than it used to. I think you need a dictionary.

That is the point:
a modded system works better than it used to. It is not "destroyed" at all. 

And compare the prices of consoles at ebay: The modded versions sell for MUCH MORE Euro/Pound/Dollar than the untouched ones.. That is fact - just have a look!

[guest5112]

I own a tuned atari xl computer with s-video but can not find a tv for it.

1) open ebay
2) search "Röhrenfernseher"
3) choose between 566 offered CRT TVs (May 2nd, 2014)

This are the results for Germany only.

or

1) open ebay
2) Change search option from "Germany" to "Europe"
3) search "CRT TV"
4) choose between 814 offered CRT TVs (May 2nd, 2014)

I think most to nearly all models will offer a S-Video Connector so you can finally use your Atari 


or

just buy one of the five brand-new TV sets you found at your local store at april 30th 2014, as yourself stated in your post 3 days ago.... ?!?

[retromod]

you know the difference between "old" and "new" Tv? The "old" one can't be repaired without parts, so every tv you will buy may be broken in a few year, that is totally ok as the built in components gets worser and worser over time due to heat and aging. "New" TV has a lifespan of about 3-5 years due to known issues (like the samsung models).

I've done a search in the saturn shop where this friendly guy told me they would have s-video tv sets and it seem if I select "S-video connector" as search criteria I simple get: nothing except some beamers. And this is quite undestandable as it seems there is only one SCART connector left on current TV sets, and it is of course as stated in wiki and other sources preset with "AV" and "RGB". So finally no choice!

And now tell me please why it is good to mod something to an old TV standard if there is the possibility to get one which is better from signal and available for some time? Ok I know you always tell the opposite what I do. Clearly understood!

[guest5112]

And now tell me please why it is good to mod something to an old TV standard if there is the possibility to get one which is better from signal and available for some time? Ok I know you always tell the opposite what I do. Clearly understood!

It is quite simple:
The people choose the mod which satisfies their personal needs (e.g. an already owned crt, functionality, preferences...)
The only person which *always* telling these people that they are not allowed to do this with there own hardware is you.

Clearly understood!

[retromod]

I discussed all these today on local vintage festival and all people involved in discussion are in common s-video is dead even so they are looking for alternatives and a big laugh was "we still have crt" arguments - sure but how long was the answer. Anyway if someone posts something in a forum thread about what he did then he asks for a discussion (else it would be boring having "i am so great" threads all the time).

And it is not an "allowed" or not discussion, this is your limited view only. It is about if it make sense or there are better ways nothing else. Thats how our econimic system works. Learning, discussing and find new better ways.
Specially as  there are better ways of implementation as Carl also pointed out. A valid argument and critism for a public thread, isn't it?

And we all accept the pro and cons only you do not all the time jumping on board on end of each discussion thread.

[Carlos]

Okay guys, I have no problem with strong disagreements, or even argument.

But any name calling or ad hominem  behaviour will not be allowed here, and I will soon 'moderate' this if it happens.

I am very mindful of losing valuable posters because of misunderstandings.

So feel free to disagree or agree with each other, but keep etiquette and civility in mind when posting.

[TrekMD]

Okay guys, I have no problem with strong disagreements, or even argument.

But any name calling or ad hominem  behaviour will not be allowed here, and I will soon 'moderate' this if it happens.

I am very mindful of losing valuable posters because of misunderstandings.

So feel free to disagree or agree with each other, but keep etiquette and civility in mind when posting.

I will add my voice to Carl's.  Keep things proper or there will be consequences.

[TL]

I don't want to see any more reports about this thread, I have removed a couple more inflammatory comments and don't want to see any more. If anyone has a personal problem with another member then please take it to PM and keep it off the forum.

Thanks

Kieren