Analog input connectors on TV's for retro consoles - discuss

[retromod]

It seems the train thru digital input connectors has started and many vendors started to drop analogue connectors. The famous one which was ditched it the S-Video connector. Why? quite simple: new tv are so thin and reduced in production costs that only one SCART adapter is available. You can not combine S-Video and RGB to one SCART connector without quality issues! So they dropped the S-Video support and combine RGB and AV into one SCART connector as RGB is better than S-Video (and is implemented on most of the digital IC's available).

Current tv sets do not have a SCART plugin built in either, they use a propertary connector with SCART on the other side of the cable. If your TV have more than one SCART adapter it most likely delivers S-Video on the other SCART plug. But having two SCART connectors is rare these days.  :21:

As a result we will not see any built-in or native digital output implementation for our retro-consoles! 

HDMI converters are really bad as they are optimized for movies and high resolution, something our retro consoles can not deliver. Upscaling 320 or 256 in horizontal is not really nice.... it looks terrible with huge blocks. that's why emulation is currently much better, it adds antialiasing to the picture improving picture. I've tried several HDMI upscalers and finally I'll gave up. Too bad in picture quality. An Atari Homecomputer with S-Video mod looks so bad on my screen as the S-Video mod itself has some artefacts (the font can't be read due to artefacts between letters). I've spoken with the technical guru at an atari homecomputer club and it told me there is no way to improve the picture in s-video with that kind of machine. So better to remove the mod and use the old composite which looks far better by HDMI upscaler.

If we will never see a plain HDMI output of our consoles and HDMI upscaler without modifications do not properly work how to proceed here? Any input on alternate ways? HDMI upscaler tests etc.?


So how to proceed here?

[tomwaits]

I don't think there's any solution that can equal a CRT for retro consoles. Even the best converters and upscalers can't match the CRT display attributes that retro games were designed for. If you want your retro games to look the way they were intended it's best to search craigslist for a quality CRT.

You can spend $$ on an upscaler, scan line generator, and HDMI converter and still won't match the retro display quality of an unwanted old trinitron CRT that someone is dumping on CL for $50.

[retromod]

I don't think there's any solution that can equal a CRT for retro consoles. Even the best converters and upscalers can't match the CRT display attributes that retro games were designed for. If you want your retro games to look the way they were intended it's best to search craigslist for a quality CRT.

You can spend $$ on an upscaler, scan line generator, and HDMI converter and still won't match the retro display quality of an unwanted old trinitron CRT that someone is dumping on CL for $50.

sure but face the reality: a CRT do not life forever! It will be broken within 10 years and you will not get spare parts. So finally there is an obvious timeframe you can't use your devices anymore. the only chance I'll see is to hook into existing HDMI solutions (so other pays the license costs) to be able to play your consoles. For example by replacing the graphic chip with a FPGA solution creating the right picture to feed into an existing HDMI converter by delivering the required digital data to display the result. Implementing your own HDMI is not possible due to license issues.

[ls650]

CRTs can be had very cheaply _now_ but that may change.  I think it will take longer than 10 years, however;  I can say a day 15 or 20 years from now where it will be hard to find a quality CRT.

I'm not too worried about it: there's going to be a demand to connect old devices to newer displays for decades to come, so although it may be expensive, there will be better solutions for conversion devices.

[retromod]

CRTs can be had very cheaply _now_ but that may change.  I think it will take longer than 10 years, however;  I can say a day 15 or 20 years from now where it will be hard to find a quality CRT.

I'm not too worried about it: there's going to be a demand to connect old devices to newer displays for decades to come, so although it may be expensive, there will be better solutions for conversion devices.

Here in germany i knew nobody who still owns a crt display anymore. Sure there are some in garage but only for dump collection. I spoke woth the people who disassemble those on the dump collection areas and even there crt are rare currently as most pepole thow them away years ago. Btw here you can not buy any crt because all discounters now offers tft/lcd. With all that in mind i'll give the crt only a few years until they are vanished forever. As all current mods supports tft, plasma and lcd there is no need anymore for crt tv's (even for the intv there are new mods running fine on them).

[ls650]

It's quite a different story in North America.  You haven't been able to buy a CRT TV new for years now, but you can find them cheap in thrift stores, pawn shops, etc.  If you look on craigslist, etc. one can find them for a relatively cheap price, say $30 for a 19" TV.    Sometimes you'll see a house where someone has bought a new LCD TV, and they have their old CRT TV sitting in the front yard with a sign saying 'FREE'.

I would say it will be some time before it becomes difficult to find a CRT in North America.  I find they tend to be very reliable: I had one 14" color CRT that I bought new in 1984, and it still worked fine when I sold it 20 years later.

[TrekMD]

CRT's are still easy to find in the US.  Of course, you can't find a new one but you can certainly find used ones in many places (Thrift shops, Craigslist, etc.) and they can be had for free.  I wonder for how will this last, though!  LOL

[retromod]

it may depend on the room you have. most gamers uses their living room shared with family. So having two devices is a real killer. Tell your girlfriend that the brand new 50", 3D, futuristic, google-all-in-one and internet ready TV is not really usable for your game console. Please carry  a helmet  for your own safety

[zapiy]

LOL^^^

I have just recyled my last CRT, a 28in Sony.. Sadly the tube was going and it was just to damn heavy to keep on our new bedroom furniture lol

[retromod]

LOL^^^

I have just recyled my last CRT, a 28in Sony.. Sadly the tube was going and it was just to damn heavy to keep on our new bedroom furniture lol

Are you playing in bed  :18:

[zapiy]

Well it covered a few purposes up in the bedroom. Gaming on some retro consoles so as they don't clog the living room and this keep the wife happy and obviously to watch TV if someone is using the downstairs telly lol. But sadly the tube has been going for a while and although we could live with it the purchase of some new furniture meant it had to go. After a small CRT now.

[retromod]

It seems US is special. Everybody tries to get the newest tv device available. Specially as a full blown internet ready 3d 50 inch tv with 4k costs less than 1000 dollar. No store in germany offer any crt anymore. Thats history. And so s-video is non- existing as valid connector, too.

Thats why an av or better rgb mod is requested by retro gamers. As people have orig consoles nearly untouched in the garage for collector purpose and a 2nd one for daily game play with highest mod available. I have customers spending hundred of dollars to get the newest technology for retro consoles. These are really hardcore fans with plenty of mint devices in their garage. Its crazy.