The Sega Saturn Thread

[DreamcastRIP]

Out of interest, where are all of these quotes coming from?

Out of interest, why the interest? 

They are factual, from multi-format magazines some during Saturn era, some in look back features, but all from coders etc with Saturn exp

This is a novel concept. Informed debate on teh internets based on fact and real life experiences of those around at the time working in the industry... instead of the revisionist history and so-called received wisdoms being trotted out ad infinitum by self-styled 'experts' and keyboard warriors. It won't catch on though.

[Rogue Trooper]

Reason i'm NOT giving out magazine names is to avoid entering into the usual: 'Well they WOULD say that, they were biased towards the Saturn/again'st the Saturn' area that often crops up on the internet.

It's not WHERE the interview was printed that matters i feel, but what the person saying had to say, which sheds light on the Saturn as a sum of it's parts and events that befell it.

Continuing on that note:

Anarchy In The Nippon, IMPORT Saturn 3D fighter by KSS , yet another game running in Saturn High Res mode and in 60 FPS.

Travellers Tales Jon Burton talking of Sonic R on Saturn:

'The misting technique (where backgrounds fade into view) would drop the frame rate to around 10 FPS or LESS if done on Playstation, the reflective water would be virtually impossible to create and Saturn had better Gouraud Shading, giving much smoother lighting.

Lobotomy on Exhumed Saturn VS PS1 versions:

Exhumed was designed with Saturn engine in mind and levels were not well suited to the PS technology we had developed, thus we re-designed the PS levels to better utilise the PS engine.In the re-design we made some other changes we WANTED to make on the Saturn version, that did'nt get done due  to time pressure.There have been so many changes to the design that the PS version is practically a different game to that of the Saturn version.

Also, lot of the press at the time seemed very keen when comparing later Saturn versions of games to point out what was MISSING from the PS version, from a technical stand point, so whilst they'd mention the LOWER polygon count on Saturn resident Evil character models, they'd often not mention fact it had higher res, more detailed backdrops and better loading times.

[TL]

Guardian Heroes is my favourite Saturn game, I really wish it had got a sequel on either the Saturn or Dreamcast.

[Rogue Trooper]

Few more examples+facts:

Core talking about Saturn Swagman-Game features special effects such as mirrors, true light sourcing, shadow casting from both fixed and moving lights, has particle fx and transparencies.Ran at 60 fps.

Pandemodium (Magical Hoppers if your looking at Jap Ver.) ported from PS1 but still had light sourcing and transparencies many said would be impossible to recreate on Saturn (curling smoke clouds, transparent shields etc).

Saturn used 'Additive Lighting' where as Playstation used 'Multipilicative Lighting'.Playstations was generally a LOT easier to use, but Saturns was better suited to 'dramatic lighting', great example of would be Saturn Quake.

Saturn version of Soviet Strike, from a technical point of view did improve on PS1 version in some areas, other than a lot of PS bugs being fixed, Saturn version had ang.pad support, higher res map screen than PS, plus on level 2, the grounded helicopters had new sound FX, making it sound like they were trying to take off, they also cast shadows, 2 things missing from PS ver.

[Rogue Trooper]

Sega Of America's President, Tom Kalinske, sent out an 'open letter' reply to an 'outraged' internet poster, regarding the Saturn hardware/software and quality there of.....

In it, he say he DID'NT apoligise for Saturn using different processors (in fact we used 8 ) saying saying each was chosen for specific purposes and that it had made Saturn more difficult to work with than Playstation, but that was also why he knew it a superior gaming format.

He makes some 'odd' claims in this letter (i'll try and get a copy out to Laird) about how 3rd parties like EA, Acclaim, Crystal dynamics agreed with Sega and there were more 3rd party titles being developed for Saturn than Playstation, at that time.

Best line though...'....we've always prided ourselves on being close to our customers and are NOT arrogant enough to think we don't need any help'.

Back to developer stuff:

Scavenger, using their own game development tools+engines, had Scorcher running in High Res mode on Saturn, in 32,000 colours, with light sourcing.

Team Andromeda (Panzer Dragoon series) interviewd at time of P.D 2, said they had NO issues coding for the TWIN CPU's on Saturn, as they'd had exp. working with twin CPU arcade boards, years before.

They did'nt use Sega's (AM2's) SGL OS though, as they felt IF they encountered issues with it, they themselves would'nt be able to resolve them, plus, it had limited speed in some key areas they were looking at, plus they say they could'nt use someone elses O S and hope to use it to a great level.

So there's examples of 2 coders who wanted to write to the metal, code directly to the hardware, in order to get results they wanted.

[Rogue Trooper]

Found a TREASURE interview for you, Laird, will see if i can get a photocopy done.

Few highlights, regarding Saturn+G.Heroes:

'At Treasure, we don't believe that tradition itself is an obstacle.You should produce games to match the hardware and make good use of the Saturn and MD's good points respectively'.

'Treasure has built up a tremendous knowledge of 2D Sprite know how, it's an assest that we wish to continue using'.

(On subject of possibilty of NEW Gunstar Heroes or Alien Solider being produced) '....IF we wanted to, we are capable of doing it.However IF we thought it may be profitable, but the creative staff did'nt want to do it, we would'nt produce it'

(Might answer your G.Heroes 2 Saturn/DC question Laird).

Scavenger talking about Saturn Scorcher: 'Scorcher is running at 30 FPS and doing more polygons with smooth sorting and clipping than any Playstation title.It has real 3D Collision checking within a real 3D enviroment.The shadows are all real time ray trace simulated'.

Travellers Tales on differences between Playstation+Saturn:

'The Playstation is easy to get started on, but you quickly reach the limits of the polygon performance and there are few tricks you can do to improve the graphical look of the game.The Saturn is more complicated to get to grips with, but it has playfield hardware, Slave and DSP processors and nice transparency effects which all improve the speed and look of a game when all used together correctly'.

[Rogue Trooper]

Turning this into THE DEF.Guide to Saturn development thread.

Jez San  on developing CROC on Saturn:

The Saturn has it's own capabilities (and unfortunately, drawbacks) compared to other machines.Our Saturn Croc team's job was to take advantage of the advanced capabilites of the machine, whilst tip-toeing around the drawbacks.......for instance, the Saturn version uses special effects like flowing lava and water that other versions do NOT have'.

[dcultrapro]

all very cool info dude but I would still like to talk about the actual games and what people think of them as well.... if that's ok? Not meaning to be a prick just wanna know what you guys think of the games in the video I shared as well... Definitely tempted to invest in a few

[Rogue Trooper]

all very cool info dude but I would still like to talk about the actual games and what people think of them as well.... if that's ok? Not meaning to be a prick just wanna know what you guys think of the games in the video I shared as well... Definitely tempted to invest in a few

Your NOT being a prick mate, far from it.The 'pricks' are those on various Retro and gaming forums that just dismiss the Saturn as being 'inferior' to the Playstation and won't even try it, hence my long list of developer quotes to try and prove to them the machine is VERY capable.

I found the Saturn a superb gaming machine, coming to it as i did few years after the Playstation.

Mass Destruction was not only technically fantastic, but bloody great fun.

Love my Mech games, so Gun Griff.did me proud, really captured the feel, you know?.

Amok i found superb as well.


Shinob i X though, whilst i was happy they kept it 2D, it did dissapoint a little, but i'm left thinking series (for myself) peaked with Revenge, Sega unsure how to proceed, stumbled, much as they did with SOR after SOR 2.

Anyways, over to others....

[TL]

Mass Destruction was not only technically fantastic, but bloody great fun.

Love my Mech games, so Gun Griff.did me proud, really captured the feel, you know?.

Amok i found superb as well.

Shinobi X though, whilst i was happy they kept it 2D, it did dissapoint a little, but i'm left thinking series (for myself) peaked with Revenge, Sega unsure how to proceed, stumbled, much as they did with SOR after SOR 2.

I can vouch for Gun Griffon and Mass Destruction, they are both fantastic games, especially the latter, if ultrapro doesn't have those games already he should have.

I have been outbid on Shinobi X so many times now, sigh, I will get it one day. I still need to get Amok, I do really want it but collecting had to take a step back when I lost my job last year.

By the way Ultrapro did you see I uploaded another batch of new Saturn reviews.

[Rogue Trooper]

Yeah, when i picked up my Saturn it came with the regular stuff like Sega Rally and VF2, which whilst i'm not huge fan of those genres as such, were the 1st to make me look at the Saturn and think Bloody Hell! i thought this was supposed to be poor at 3D?.

Knew i HAD to get Gun Griff, was keen to try Panzer Dragoon (Fantastic series). had seen C+VG raving about Mas Destruction, had loved Subter. and Red Zone on MD, so very keen to seek out Scavengers games.Shinobi X i picked up cheap and like an idiot, sold soon after.

[dcultrapro]

I've had gun griffon for a while and I did really like it, I wish they had brought number 2 to the PAL region.

Anyone think its worth getting Titan Wars? I am also looking at Night Striker S and something called Bulk Slash I think its called

I never managed to finish Burning Rangers, there was just one level where I couldn't find the finish I need to get back on it and try completing it again

[TL]

Anyone think its worth getting Titan Wars? I am also looking at Night Striker S and something called Bulk Slash I think its called

Never played them so I can't tell you.

Another game that might interest you seen as you like your Transformers and stuff is Super Dimension Force Macross:

[dcultrapro]

ok well nevermind! for the moment I will wait anyway as I just can't afford it but I'll have a look at the one you mentioned

[TL]

ok well nevermind! for the moment I will wait anyway as I just can't afford it but I'll have a look at the one you mentioned

I picked up Macross for £10 IIRC, so it's not too expensive.