Looking at above list then: (of games that would be of interest to myself as a punter)Stun Runner: Killer title in arcades, what's on offer extra's wise on the Panther version?There has never been an arcade perfect home console versionXybots: Pass ta, already played decent enough version on my ST/Amiga. Not paying full price for a tarted up version.There was never a home console versionLemmings II: Ok, great game but why should i go for this over the MD/SNES/Amiga version?It's a popular title - no other reasonPit-Fighter: old hat now chap, i hear the SNES is getting SF2.Different types of games, not a massive fan of SF2. Again there was no arcade perfect home version.Rampart: isn't that out on MD, Lynx etc?.Yes but its a superb game.APB: Superb game, but i've played it to death on C64 and ST.There was never a home console port (only handheld)Walker: What have you done with the control scheme? does it work as well as the Amiga version as game been designed around mouse control.Use a mouse!Great Giana Sisters:Mario clone, would'nt i be better off going for a SNES if i wanted Mario? Super Mario 4 supposed to be bloody amazing.It's a platformer, people like platformersTurrican III is'nt that Mega Turrican on the Genesis? plus have you seen SNES Super Contra? or MD Gunstar Heroes?, plus is'nt the Panther version just a more colourful Amiga port, plus more pricey?Super Cars III (i'd wager would have been Amiga port as would Blood Money II)Switchblade III ditto, plus Strider clone, so would have been up again'st mighty Strider on MDThe above games were never on the Amiga, these would be Panther exclusive sequels Zool 2 vs Sonic series.Zool was a popular series
All i'm going to get is the arcade version of Stun Runner on Panther? no extra modes, no extra courses, no track designer? just the very same game designed for arcade play, nothing to increase the life of it?.Hmnn....
Is there a mouse for Panther? find it unlikely Atari would let me use existing ST mouse when they could sell me a console mouse.....
Not trying to be awkward, honest, just looking at it in cold light of day.ATARI would not have been able to aquire the exclusives to best selling Amiga games, they just didn't have the cash to secure them.If your looking to sell the Panther to your existing ST user base, you cannot really try and sell them same games they have on ST, just bit better looking and sounding, if your trying to sell these games to a newcomer, sure they'll see they are on MD, SNES.
Quote from: "Gorf"Besides, with the right dev tools all those games from the ST. Amiga days could have been easily ported over to the Jaguar given its 68k and several were as a matterof fact... a lot of good that did for it as we now know today.In my other post where I mention the games that should have been released with or shortly after the systemare the kind of projects Jaguar needed and many of them...that path was the right path, just too little to late.Yes but Panther would have been 2 years before Jaguar when those were the games that people wanted and they were not yet old hat.
Besides, with the right dev tools all those games from the ST. Amiga days could have been easily ported over to the Jaguar given its 68k and several were as a matterof fact... a lot of good that did for it as we now know today.In my other post where I mention the games that should have been released with or shortly after the systemare the kind of projects Jaguar needed and many of them...that path was the right path, just too little to late.
Well to counter that (as seems to be my job here )Let's say this instead, the following companies announce . . . .Domark/Tengen STUN RunnerXybotsSteel TalonsRace Drivin'Pit-FighterRoad Riot 4WDRampartA.P.B.HydraSkull & CrossbonesPsygnosisLemmings 2Shadow Of The Beast (Lynx version)Blood Money 2WalkerAgonyThalionWings Of DeathNo Second PrizeLethal XcessDragon FlightA Prehistoric TaleRainbow ArtsTurrican 3XYZ-OutStarball 2Great Giana SistersSpherical 2Gremlin GraphicsSuper Cars 3Zool 2Lotus 3Switchblade 3Hero Quest 3With that kind of line up my only response would have been . . . . .
Quote from: "The Laird"Quote from: "Gorf"Besides, with the right dev tools all those games from the ST. Amiga days could have been easily ported over to the Jaguar given its 68k and several were as a matterof fact... a lot of good that did for it as we now know today.In my other post where I mention the games that should have been released with or shortly after the systemare the kind of projects Jaguar needed and many of them...that path was the right path, just too little to late.Yes but Panther would have been 2 years before Jaguar when those were the games that people wanted and they were not yet old hat.If that were the case then the CD32 should have been successful...it was released in the same year.
Think you'd have been 'pushed' to get Psygnosis on board with Panther.They looked at the Jaguar and came away very unimpressed and had no faith in Atari's marketing.
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Think you'd have been 'pushed' to get Psygnosis on board with Panther.They looked at the Jaguar and came away very unimpressed and had no faith in Atari's marketing.But they had already signed up for Panther, as reported by the article in The One and by Atari themselves. They also released 2 games for the Lynx around the same time - Lemmings and Shadow Of The Beast.
With Stun Runner i'm saying it would have needed those extra features, if it was just a straight port, no matter how arcade perfect, you+i both know how reviewers would have treated it, only to look at how the stunning Lynx version fared.
:-) hold on, it cannot be 'The same controller, just added an extra button' a moddified controller, yes, but not the same one or is this Triggers same sweeping brush syndrome? The Jaguar controller, must have been really difficult choice for Atari:Hmnnn, we've warehouses of thes Falcon controllers just sat here going no-where, Falcon has bombed, wtf are we to do with the games we had started for it and these controllers? design new controllers for Jaguar? nah, keep same socket and we'll bundle em with the console.
ST Mouse might well work with Jaguar via an adaptor (but then i can play PC games using a PS2 controller etc via adaptors), but Mouse support could'nt have been key part of Jaguar strategy, otherwise i'd have expected to seen it in things like Syndicate, Cannon Fodder etc. shipping games with mouse+adaptor would have added how much i wonder to prices?.
From my experience, people were buying consoles to go with thier micros.Most had an ST or Amiga for the European games, plus things like flight sims, turn based strategy, god games etc, things with more depth than typical console fare, then bought a console for the arcade conversions and exclusives.as ACE said so many times, you really needed both, to get best gaming had to offer at that time.
Think your missing my point, lol. ATARI like any other corporation, were not out to have a minor slice of the market, they were'nt after niche, they wanted 'in' on console boom, saw massive inroads Nintendo was making with Sega taking up the slack, on the 8 bit side, hence the 8 Bit micro in a console case 65XE, Commodore tried similar with the C64GS, Amstrad with the GX4000.All failed.
Atari then saw SEGA steal Nintendo's limelight by entering the 16 Bit console arena before them, then saw the SNES doing the buisness and wanted back in, knew others were eying up the market, so wanted to leap frog any competition and follow Sega's approach by being the 1st with a 32 Bit console.
If the publishers you name were to be convinced to support Panther, ATARI would have had to convince them they'd learnt from past mistakes, had the hardware and marketing to make Panther a world class system.
The handling of the Lynx alone, put retailers off the Jaguar. Atari always seemed to be 'in the spotlight', but for wrong reasons..the ST CD Drive, talking of Lynx games that never appeared, the ST console, inviting ST mags down to see Panther once canned, over hyping the Jaguar, proclaiming X, Y and Z were on board.
Mate as an 800XL, Lynx, ST and Jaguar owner, i lost count of the number of times ATARI claimed to be taking things seriousily.As ST owner i saw the format slowly die off with N/A next to games i wanted, as 800XL owner i saw ATARI promise a new wave of software support-never happened so i had to sell 800XL off to fund a C64 purchase.ATARI would not have had faith from:Publisher, retailer or public-they'd blown it at that time.
I think what your saying is Panther would have given Atari time to work out bugs in Jaguar hardware and raised funds etc etc, some breathing space etc.Maybe make it a 'true' 64-Bit system to compete with PS/Saturn and get out before N64 hit, but i just don't see it happening that way.
Atari would have seen it's flagship 32 Bit system, designed as a wonderous sprite pushing machine, under threat from 3DO, then PS and Saturn and done exactly what they did when Jaguar was under threat from those formats-gone mental and tried to compete on level playing field or got hype machine going for Jaguar, whilst bringing it's release forward, which did'nt help SEGA in long run by releasing Saturn earlier.
LOL, you've posted the very review of Stun Runner up here were it's slagged off for being little more than a tech.showcase and we've commented on it in the Lynx review thread, so i'm not digging through for a link when we've already discussed the 'merits' of said review.
My statement is clearly wrong? eh? the Jaguar pad was NOT designed from ground up for the Jaguar, unlike say Sega's Nights pad or the Playstation pad for PS1, it was designed for Falcon, production lines geared up, dies made etc for plastic moulding (your talking to an ex-engineer here, so i know the lead time on tool/die making, plus the sheer cost).The extra button quote you've included did'nt even relate to the Jaguar/Falcon controller, but point you made about earlier Atari hardware using same joystick, just with extra button.By all means quote, but do so in way that it reflects full quote and it's context, otherwise it's very confusing. :-) Plus the 7800 joystick is totally different shape (casing etc) so ATARI redesigned it more than just 'ahh, put on 2 fire buttons).
But when were ATARI in profit? last i heard around the era of Jaguar launching, ATARI posted losses of over $73.6 million in 1992 which was worrying to developers over here-As Virgin's software manager put it: If it (Jaguar) had a Nintendo or Sega badge nobody would be in doubt that it's an amazing machine'.So that's view of 1 of the key European house's Panther would need, let alone Jaguar.
Virgin (again) said they were a global company and it had to lok at global penetration, when it came to supporting hardware and: 'At the moment, who's heard of ATARI in the states?'
So again, i fail to see how publishers would have signed up to Panther, when they were competing on global stage and Atari just could'nt compete.