Hover Bovver - New Intellivision Homebrew!

[DreamcastRIP]

It's not the "AtariAge thread" that I was referring to, but the screenshots of the conversations between two parties, which shows how the deal was wrought, then soured.

Thank you for the clarification. I only assumed you were referring to the conversation on AtariAge due to you having linked the thread to said convervation on AtariAge at the point you did in your post.

I wasn't inferring anything of you, I merely exhorted others to form their own opinions, as you have done.

Cheers.

[Elektronite]

"Thank you for calling me names.  Is that part of your professionalism?

I wonder if you know what the word means.  I don't defend Mark so much as I argue your position.  And if I do defend him, it has nothing to do with gaining his favour."

I certainly know what the word 'sycophant' means. You certainly seem to kiss his ass a lot on Atari Age. Just today you were gushing over one of his unfinished games saying

"Cool! Will you be posting another beta ROM or a video with the tracks? "

You said on Atari Age "I'd like to point out that I am a very patient man, and will support Groovy in any of his projects, no matter how long they take. I am not sorry for pre-paying his games, and I will do so again, because I know that they will be awesome when completed. And I will wait whatever it takes."

I could continue.

Calling names? If the shoe fits.

"I find the entire thing unsavoury from both sides, but I only hear how Elektronite has been victimized, and you pushing this very dirty laundry into the public eye from the beginning.  I object to that."

You do?

Why are you not objecting to Mark Ball, aka 'Groovy Bee' posting ALL the PMs? And, you accuse me of airing dirty laundry, and deny being a sycophant?

You point out various stuff, but conveniently omit that I actually paid him $2000 US. Maybe that is nothing to you, but to me, it is a lot of money. No, no victim here. Just move along. Nothing to see......are you trying to cover up for him? Or, is it that you can't admit publically, that this is all driven by your enmity for me.

You love to attack me and try to disparage my 'professionalism' because I dared to make a game company that was professional. Does that offend you? Do you find me making a business out of your cherished hobby 'distasteful'?

Well, just so you know, my 'distasteful business' allowed you to release your game complete in box.

"The game is cancelled, its a pity, but lets move on.  Do we have to hear on every turn how much money you lost and how wronged you feel you have been?  Oh and by the way, please stop the threats.  Lets just stop this."

I think it is important that the community find out that Mark Ball is a fraud, despite you trying to shut down the discussion.

Threats? What the hell are you talking about?

"I won't address this topic any more, I wish you do the same.  It's time for the head of Elektronite to graciously practice some of that professionalism."

Oh, but you will. You will respond to have the 'last word'. You always do.

When you post things like 'Yes, this works both ways, it includes stopping the rallying cries of victimization and martyrdom of Elektronite.  It's over, so lets move on.'

It really equates to :

- I have the last word, let's move on after I've made these comments, do not rebut me.

Edited to remove an unnecessary comment at the end

[Greyfox]

This thread is breach of been locked, we do not tolerate argumentive behaviour between members, we understand the frustration of what's being said here etc, but please try to keep a constructive opinion.

Thank you.

[TrekMD]

Guys, the game has been cancelled.  Continuing to argue about it achieves nothing at this time.  If the discussion continues in the current argumentative way, the thread will be locked.  I suggest you agree to disagree on this matter and move on. 

[Elektronite]

I edited an insulting comment that I should not have made.

It is true that the game is cancelled. If DZ truly wants to 'move on' please do so.

My only desire is to sell off the remaining boxes and put this behind me.

[TrekMD]

I edited an insulting comment that I should not have made.

It is true that the game is cancelled. If DZ truly wants to 'move on' please do so.

My only desire is to sell off the remaining boxes and put this behind me.

Thank you.  This is, without a doubt, a very frustrating situation.  I hope the boxes sell out so you can recover some of the money you had to spend on this project. 

[DZ-Jay]

Just because you have mentioned my game, I'd like to address this point.

The Christmas Carol game was going to be released in spite of Elektronite.  I know you like to take credit (you've mentioned it before) because you produced the gatefold boxes, but keep in mind that you did that in a deal with Left Turn Only so that both could save money by printing in bulk.

You were not doing me a favour, it was a business deal, and had nothing to do with me.  Joe, of Left Turn Only, was my publisher.

Without that printing deal, the game would have still been produced--even if I had to bankroll it myself.  However, Joe did an excellent job, and I am very thankful for it.

Yes, you had the gatefold boxes made, and they are fine.  But you didn't have a monopoly on printing boxes nor producing games.

The game would have sold with or without a gatefold box--and it would have been just the same charming and fun game.

I don't see why this should even be brought up?

And by the way, I am not trying to shutdown a discussion.  I was merely pointing out that there are two sides to this issue, not just a victim.  Mark's reputation is at stake and people are being somewhat liberal in their assumptions because of a vociferous one-sided conversation.

I am sorry you lost money, that is never a good thing, but it seems clear it was a deal fraught with misunderstandings and unprofessionalism from the beginning, which led to bad blood.  It happens.

However, I don't think you are just a victim in all this, and I don't agree you should seek to destroy anyone's character for it--but that is my opinion, not sycophancy.

Feel free to have the last word, for I won't respond; but please try to keep it civil and avoid ad hominem attacks.  I disagree your position, and I argue your methods, but I don't go around calling you names.

     dZ.

[Elektronite]

Thank you for the reasonable reply.

The reason that I 'take credit' for your game being released, is that without my 'business' the whole production of JLP would not have been economically viable. My company drives sales of JLP and LTO Shells.

Yes, Joe supplies my carts and shells, and I supply his overlays and boxes, but what you fail to realize, is that without the economic activity of me moving so many boards and shells, your game would not have been viable, because the carts and shells would have been unacceptably expensive and Joe would not have been publishing your game. There was an entire run done of 'upside down' shells. They would not have been redone without Elektronite.

It isn't just a gatefold box and a professional quality overlay that I contributed.

I've always gotten the feeling that you have been 'offended' by my business, for lack of a better term, or maybe just me personally.

You have the opinion that your game would have gone ahead without me 'sullying' your hobby with my distasteful economic activity. I guess if you were willing to bankroll the game yourself, you are correct that it would have come out....but at what cost? I am sure that if you put your own money up, you certainly wouldn't be happy with 200 sales.

I brought it up, because, I believe that your personal bias against me is clouding your judgment on this issue.

I appreciate you saying that you are sorry I lost money.

Nevertheless, if I sell all of my boxes, and something else I have planned, I will 'break even' on Hover Bovver and will be happy.

I do agree that Mark's reputation is at stake.

Perhaps this incident will encourage Mark to finish the games he took money for. I hope for the community's sake, that is exactly what happens.
 
If he does deliver, people can write this incident off as a misunderstanding.

If not......?

[DreamcastRIP]

Oh for heaven's sake, enough already!

DZ-Jay posted that as far as he was concerned,

...It's over, so lets move on.

Elektonite responded to that with,

It really equates to :

- I have the last word, let's move on after I've made these comments, do not rebut me.

And as sure as night follows day DZ-Jay all too predictably did just that by confirming that for him it isn't "over" at all because he's now done what Elektronite said he would by trying to have the last word and comically having the front to state,

Feel free to have the last word...

At least Elektronite responded in a civil manner to that. Phew!

For what it's worth I hope the powers that be here do not lock this thread. Doing so would only serve to further silence the debate and thus protect those whose conduct evidently doesn't warrant any protection from public scrutiny.

As long as folk avoid making ad hominem attacks and snide personal remarks against each other then I don't see anything wrong in passionate debate on an internet forum. Not every thread can sensibly be all sweetness and light with everyone agreeing and getting along together and nor should it. We're not here to achieve world peace, this is a discussion forum where, by the very nature of what discussion is, means that folk won't always agree on everything said. There's nothing wrong with that. So, like I said, passionate back and forth debate is fine as long as it doesn't involve ad hominem attacks, etc. Long live freedom of speech.

[zapiy]

I do agree DC and as long as this debate does not spiral out of control then the thread will stay open. But I do believe we should move on and allow the dust to settle and see what happens next.

[DreamcastRIP]

I do agree DC and as long as this debate does not spiral out of control then the thread will stay open. But I do believe we should move on and allow the dust to settle and see what happens next.

 

[TrekMD]

I do agree DC and as long as this debate does not spiral out of control then the thread will stay open. But I do believe we should move on and allow the dust to settle and see what happens next.

Agree 1000%.  I rather we get excited about the other games Elektronite is getting ready! 

[DZ-Jay]

Sorry guys, have a pint on me, all around!

And as an offer of truce and good faith, I'll remind everyone that Elektronite has indeed a few more games to be released this year.  Hovver Bovver would have been nice, but Caves of Kroz and Paddle Party look very cool!  (I'm not counting Defender of the Crown until after the Kickstarter occurs.)

I've been waiting for Caves of Kroz since a demo was posted to the intv-programmer's mailing list a couple of years ago.

 Cheers!
   dZ.

[Elektronite]

Anyone interested in a Hover Bovver Box and overlays for their Intellivision collection go to

www.gamesforyourintellivision.com and follow the Hover Bovver link.

There are 70 packages left.

When they are gone, they are gone.

[TrekMD]

Got my box set today!  Thanks!