A brief disseration on retro games and stuff, by Bobinator

[Bobinator]

This is going to take a while.

So, as I've been on this site for... what I'd say has been "a while", I've been figuring I need to spell out my thoughts on certain things. This isn't against anyone or anything, really, this is more of a... stream of consciousness. I've been awake for... I can't even tell you, right now. When I stay up this long, I tend to have thoughts I want to share. A lot of thoughts. So, if you find this too boring to read, I wouldn't blame you.

I'm, as I'm sure you've all figured out, not a lot like a good portion of the people who hang around this site. I've always hung around lots of retro gaming sites over the years, and those have instilled in me a few things I figured were common knowledge. "Nobody hates Nintendo, or at least classic Nintendo." "Everybody thinks Atari was just one failure after the other." And comng here, obviously, has proven both of those very, very wrong. I have to admit, coming around here for the first time, it was actually quite shocking to see people who actually thought like this.

Over time, however, I've understood that this is a site for a different generation, of a different country. And I've grown to fear that less as time goes on. I can't say I could embrace it, though, to be honest. It's like this, to offer a really bad analogy: You're a square hole, RVG. I'm a round peg. I can't fit in with you entirely, but I can put myself in a similar hole used for a similar purpose. ...I said it was a bad analogy, all right?

And that purpose would be retro gaming. We're all here to play and discuss retro gaming, of various sorts. The funny thing about retro gaming is that nobody is entirely sure what is actually is. And I find that fascinating. You can only show technology to a certain person that's this old or that new before it becomes "weird thing I don't get". And you know what I think part of the problem is? Lack of education among the retro gaming masses.

Let's take the average person from the 90's, for example. It might be me, it might not. This person is aware of the SNES, the Genesis/Mega Drive, possibly DOS, or possibly some other of the 5 or so computers of the 90's. He might not know of the ZX Spectrum, the Amiga, or god forbid, the Amstrad. And the sad thing is, he probably won't.

I've been coming up with a general theory that a lot of retro gaming fans, whatever they grew up playing, get the impression that the games they liked are the sort of things EVERYONE knows about. Take, as an example, an average issue of Retro Gamer. Who's Matthew Smith, and what's this creepy smiling egg thing this magazine keeps talking about? Or, on the other end of the spectrum, for the older folk, what's this newfangled "Metal Gear Solid" business people are going on about? I like RG as a magazine, but most articles about it seem to be written as if you're well aware of each topic. This... doesn't quite work.

As I've said, the retro gaming community as a whole needs education. Some sort of source to learn why good games are good, no matter where or when they came from. I'd say that the retro gaming community should make its "duty", as it were, to share knowledge, not hoard it to themselves, to be given out only for those who were already had it in the first place.

Let me give you an example of what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSnci4tjNdQ

This is a video review of the DOS game Chex Quest. This is a game I'm well aware of, but you probably aren't. But this video doesn't just inform you of the game, it educates. It tells you of the game's history, what it's about, how it plays, what makes it special, and what its strengths and weaknesses as a game are. He also entertains as he does his review/retrospective, giving extra incentive for the viewer to continue watching and learn more.

There's more than one channel like this for DOS games. My armor-piercing question, my challenge to not just you, Retro Video Gamer, but to the British retro gaming community and BEYOND: What's stopping you from educating me on any game for the ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, or Amiga, with this same level of quality and dedication? The only people I can think of who do this are Guru Larry and Ashens. Sadly, however, they don't really do that sort of thing as often as any of the American reviewers I'm aware of, leaving a very large void for this sort of thing.

I should mention, if you're aware of my DOS reviews, this is the express purpose for why I make them. I love DOS, even with its faults. And I want to show you why I love DOS, by showing you what I think makes it great. Sadly, I'm a little limited by the review format to REALLY get into detail on why I pick the games I choose to review. I'd like to ask: Do the reviews make you interested in the games I do? Do you find them informative?

Thank you for reading.

[TL]

That was excellent Bob, really great read.

That is the kind of thing I would like to read in Retro Gamer rather than those terrible columns by Paul Davies and Iain Lee. I do agree that there is a serious of lack of the kind of channel you speak of, Steve Benway's is the only one that springs to mind but he is very dry and boring. This is probably why I watch a lot of American You Tube shows/channels like Classic Game Room and Game Sack (although this is very hit and miss).

I for one enjoy reading your reviews and I did even install DOS Box on my laptop to give some stuff a try when I was away from home. If you feel you can't fit a review into 250-300 words and do it justice then you can always write a feature review like TrekMD has done.

[Rogue Trooper]

Excellent work there Bob and by god, just the sort of thing that needs to be a regular column in RG magazine rather than the 'filler' we get served up each month by 2 Z-list celbs.

I'm going to challenge you on a few points you brought to the table though (your post made for a rich debate in itself):

I'm from a very early gaming generation (i'll be 40 this year, gulp!), early gaming days were on ZX81 (Sinclair), hand held LCD's by Nintendo, Bandai, Tomy, Grandstand etc, had the 2600 etc etc.I've been there for every generation and whilst i don't hate 'classic' Nintendo (i.e the NES), it's never had any appeal for myself, nor a lot from 'my generation'.

It arrived at a time when we were more than happy with the 8 Bit Home-Micro's we had and our focus, future wise was 16 Bit in form of ST/Amiga. Since those days, i've played a good few Nes games, sometimes to see how they compared to other versions, sometimes to try what others have said is a classic, i know within myself it's a system that's not for me, nor is the original GB (i own one), so any further 'education' would be lost on myself as they are systems i've tried, have'nt taken too, never will.

Talking of education-without blowing the very trumpet of this very site, i think we are a step above many other sites.The thrreads you find on here are more than willing to fly in the face of conventional with a lot of time and effort being spent turning established 'facts' right on their head.

The Saturn was'nt under-powered compared to PSone or could'nt do decent 3D or transparancies, the PS2 was'nt anywhere near as powerful as Sony made out, the 3DO+Jaguar were not awful pieces of hardware with only a handful of decent games, the Nes did not save the UK games industry etc etc.

We will use interview quotes, youtube footage, magazine scans, anything we can to 'get the message across', to educate, to show the flipside etc, even when it's still faced with scorn (that 3D looks awful) and miss-trust (when a quote comes from the person who wrote the game itself).

I've been trying to get others to join here and they often say, ahhh, too few members, too few posts, but, A)We have the quality and B)Without them joining to swell 'ranks' and increase post count, how do they expect things to change?

We find ourselves leapt apon when we post feedback on a magazine we've paid for (in advance), and find the same magazine claims to want our help to shape that magazine, it's examples like these that are 'stopping us' as you say, people get fed up, disillusioned, think why bother posting a thread or making a video?

It can be like facing a mountain, when you set out to climb a mole hill at times and you think, nah, just play some games instead, i mean i honestly never thought, as a long term gamer that ATARI hardware+Games would get so little coverage from mainstream media in this day and age and people would still buy into the usual revised history or react with disbelief when someone points out just why a game ended up so poorly on a platform or a platform was capable of a damn sight more than what people thought it was or indeed that the uber-powerful system you grew up with, was'nt actually all that, but it's things like that, which honestly have led to myself and others abandoning forums, cancelling magazine subscriptions as you feel like people don't want to be taken out of the comfort zone.

[Rogue Trooper]

:-)

In next wks post:How to make friends and influence people in less than 5 lines of text-By R.T.

[dougtitchmarsh]

An interesting and thought provoking post bobinator. It's a tightrope fine line to walk though between education and boring people with facts (not saying anybody here does that as I've learned tons here from everyone). I like to write reviews of games I rmember or enjoy but that means always giving a high mark which is wrong, I also like to include a little history of why I like the game, why I have come back to review it and the nostalgic memories it holds.
I feel that some people find that boring though, I enjoy writing it but does anyone enjoy it as a read? Same thing for facts and figures, polygon counts, system tech details are great for an overview but do you need it as a precursor to every game review for a system, sure someone is going to be reading about that system for the first time but many may be reading for the 100th time.

I'll take some time and read your post again though Bobinator and when time allows I'll watch the video for tips, could be worthwhile for improving future reviews.

[nakamura]

I'm not really sure you are getting at here. Are you wanting more media to go into detail to tell you about what games to play?

[davyk]

Great point about educating through the medium of review there. I've written a few reviews for various sites and what I consider the better ones have had a little bit of history sneaked in there in a non-contrived way.

It isn't easy to do but is certainly worth it.

There are certain platforms I have no knowledge of (tend to be computers of the 8 and 16bit era) and quite often  skip over any content pertaining to that - so maybe retro is more about nostalgia for me though I like to think its more than that to me as I like the style of game ( I have a huge tolerance for older graphics which I use as evidence for that).

I think if education is in mind then it would be interesting to focus on the game and not actually mention the platform until the end (or at least later in the right context) when giving info on trying it out?

[Bobinator]

I'm not really sure you are getting at here. Are you wanting more media to go into detail to tell you about what games to play?

Sort of. What I'd like to see is more people going into the older computers less people are aware of. Like, what games are good on the BBC Micro? What makes them good? Stuff like that. I'm also asking that if people have a certain machine they like, they should use facts and information to make that machine look appealing to other people, as well.

DavyK: Nostalgia isn't a bad thing, but much like alchohol, it should be used in moderation. A little nostalgia is great for making people think of happier times and going back to what they grew up with. Too much creates what's basically an echo chamber, and it makes people think that games like "Muppet Monster Adventure" weren't pretty bad in the long run.

By the way, let me give you an example of what I want to do: A few years back, I ended up getting involved with emulating an Amiga. I didn't have much idea of what it was besides "British computer", so I just hopped on LemonAmiga, looked through the top 100, and started playing stuff at random. One of the games I played was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBFxvelfVM

It shocked me, honestly, that some old computer I had never heard of had the power and capability to make something so close to my familiar console games, and it sparked me to get more into the Amiga as a whole. This was more of a self-taught interest, but this is what I'd like to see other people do.

[TrekMD]

Nice read and I can see where you're coming from.  I'm not familiar with everything "retro" out there myself, so it's nice to get some additional nuggets of information on some of these other systems. 

Insofar as the reviews, you should write longer reviews of some of the DOS games so you can better include what you want and it can be posted as a featured review.  As Laird said, that's what I've done with some of the games I've reviewed. 

[AmigaJay]

I see where your coming from Bob, I know LemonAmiga is one of the best database sites out there for a specific platform, there are a few other database and top games sites for sega, Nintendo, atari, but as you said finding for more obscure formats is harder and take more digging to find.
At some point later this year I do want to get into more dosbox gaming to see what was around that I missed out on when I had my Amiga, MD etc so from 1987-1995 timeframe and as you say dos sites with reviews and top 100s are hard to find, plenty of abandonware sites though!

[zapiy]

Great read Bob, firstly from a site point of view i think i can say confidently that we are more than open to more input from you guys over in the States, hell we actively want that to continue. Secondly as said already feel free to make some of your reviews longer and we can start to extend the featured reviews section of needed.

I also see where your coming from regarding how reviewers get things accross, i guess it depends on the media used and how confident that person is.. The Chex review is done by a very articulate guy and so more of the info sinks in. Wish i was able to do reviews like that but alas i am not that way inclined, i love to read the reviews you guys do, i love to look at some of the guys that you all consider hidden gems.

[davyk]

This may be more an issue for me - but I much prefer to play retro games on original hardware and the  lesser known platforms will by necessity involve emulation. Now even though this can be excellent in most cases - it can put some people off. There is always the suspicion that you aren't getting the right speed & sound etc.

It probably puts me off a bit as I like to collect and play - and there is some pleasure in having the physical game even if it involves the expense and inconvenience of owning and connecting up older hardware.

[Bobinator]

TrekMD: I've been planning to write more reviews, although I try to keep them under 350 words. This can be a challenge when I have a game I could really, really go on for a long time about, though.

AmigaJay: That's great to hear! If you need help diving in, let me know and I'd be happy to help.

Zapiy: Yeah, the problem with video reviews is that it does take a lot of charisma, which not everybody has. I know I couldn't do it myself, because I tend to hate my voice. It also takes a lot of work to do a video review like the one I linked, which I'm very aware of. Doing a script, setting up the camera, recording, editing... it's not something everybody, including myself, can do. This is why I prefer to write, myself, although writing has some severe limitations for this sort of thing.

DavyK: I can't say I'm much of a collector, and I haven't played many retro games on their original hardware in a very long time. That's not to say I don't WANT to, just that I don't really have the disposable income, or the space, to fit something like an Amiga. Which is why I emulate.

[TrekMD]

TrekMD: I've been planning to write more reviews, although I try to keep them under 350 words. This can be a challenge when I have a game I could really, really go on for a long time about, though.

That's the advantage of the featured game reviews.  You don't have that limit. 

[TL]

TrekMD: I've been planning to write more reviews, although I try to keep them under 350 words. This can be a challenge when I have a game I could really, really go on for a long time about, though.

That's the advantage of the featured game reviews.  You don't have that limit. 

The thing you have to avoid though is going round the houses and repeating yourself or going on and on about a game just because you love it so much. Gushing praise can often put people off just as much as harsh criticism I find. I pretty much always try to get a bit of history into all my reviews, even the short ones, it's actually something people comment on a lot that they really like about what I write.