Who is your favourite console manufacturer?

[Rogue Trooper]

I just really struggle to see the SNES as the powerhouse it was claimed (when i was a MD owner) by friends and lot of the press at the time when some 60 ? games use enhancement chips of some form and there are so many:


Cx4 (Capcom), DSP-1 (15 games ? used this), DSP-2 (used i gather to convert Dungeon Master from the Atari ST, where it converts ST bitmap data to SNES bitplane data, but also helps out with transparency effects), DSP-3, DSP-4, OBC-1, S-RTC, SA-1, SPC7110, ST010, ST011, ST018,Super FX Mk 1 and Super FX Mk 2.


This is why, for myself what coders got from a stock MD, just using a faster CPU and clever coding routines for 2D games and the MD CPU+Z80+clever coding routines for early 3D games will also make the MD the far more impressive machine for myself.

The MCD might well have been an expensive failure, it's potential squandered by Sega themselves, but when the hardware was used (Thunderhawk, Battlecorps, soulstar, Driving sections of Batman Returns etc), it was far more impressive than SNES Mode 7.

Carl Mey who did MD Road Rashclaimed SNES was 'Far less powerful than than the MD.The MD had a 16-Bit data bus, while the SNES had an 8-Bit data bus.On the SNES, all data access was around half the speed of the MD'

I like the way you moan about the SNES and its supposed lack of power then throw in that the MCD was more impressive. I should hope it was, it was another £200 on top.

I also wouldn't take the word of anyone who worked for EA seriously. They absolutely hated Nintendo, their policies and the control they had over their market. They also gave a load of shite ports to the machine in the early days. The MD was certainly better at pushing sprites, but there is no doubt in my mind EA could have given the SNES a great road rash.

There are roughly 70 games with enhancement chips in on the SNES. Some are Super FX, which even the MD would probably need to run them at a good frame rate. The Capcom stuff in rather pointless as it is for pointless stuff like a 3D background on the final boss on Megaman X.
Also some of the chips are used for extreme data compression like in Street Fighter Alpha 2. Another chip was used to load a 4 minute fully voiced song in a game intro.

Not all the chips are used to cheaply get around programming and the relatively slow CPU. Also plenty of games got around that, though it's still not as fast as the MD.

Glad you liked it as i bought (in the order they are posted) ALL 3 of the MD, MCD and SNES and as i', sure your aware i've 'moaned' often enough about how SEGA squandered the MCD potential going down the FMV route and more recently how i was'nt that impressed with Core's original MCD offerings (was'nt until Thunderhawk that they showed what they were capable of).MCD was indeed very expensive for an add-on, even SEGA realised that by dropping the motorised tray and flashing lights aspect of it for the MK2, but things like Blastcorps, 3D sections in Batman Returns, Thunderhawk, Soul Star etc just wowed me far more than anyhing i saw SNES pulling off Mode 7+DSP chips an all.


As a MD owner at the time, all i ever heard from the SNES crowd be it mates or in mags was bloody Mode 7 this that and the rest of it, it was brought out everytime as if the MD was a far lesser machine for not having this 'fabled Mode 7', yet MD coders managed to ape so much of what it was doing and when i finally got a SNES, it really did'nt set my world on fire and the games i loved the most (Mr DO!, Alien 3, Plok, Batman returns-side Scrolling beat-em-up sections etc) did'nt seem to need it to be fantastic games.


With the programmer's (that's the important bit, the person who coded the game, not the corp they worked for) speaking out about Road Rash and indeed desert strike (hardware differences between SNES+MD), think it's pretty fair to say i can trust what's being said, these are the guys that wrote the code, designed the games, not some faceless E.A P.R person.

yep, well aware of what else the DSP chips etc did, that's why i mentioned Dungeon Master using 1 to convert ST graphics into a format the SNES could use, others were used for A.I etc, just like SEGA's DSP allowed for extra sound channels on MD.....they could be used for more than just 1 purpose.

[Rogue Trooper]

I'm sure he does. I just don't take anything from EA seriously. They are a cancer on gaming and will cuddle up to whoever will make them the most money. They always have been.

Made some great games mind.

i'm struggling with the logic here:these guys were coders working for E.A, had bills to pay etc, should i doubt what Jeff Minter says about Jaguar Tempest 2000 in his making of...features, when ATARI really screwed up the Jaguar (and Lynx)?.


The entire reason i use CODER quotes is to try and get people's mindsets past the whole 'I would'nt believe what this magazine or publisher said' attitude, we are talking the people that coded for the hardware, put the hours in, probably got shafted by the people they worked for and all they are doing is talking of the games they wrote on the systems they wrote for.Who they worked for then never comes into it when they are asked about a certain game or differences between systems.They just speak openly on how they found them to work for.

[davyk]

After a fair bit of thought I voted for Nintendo. To be honest if it wasn't for them in a post Sega world I would't be into video games as the rest don't seem to be able to create anything that interests me.

It's close between Atari , Sega and Nintendo for me but for longevity and whether you like it to not (there's a lot of Nintendo hate here) innovation - Nintendo wins through.

Yes - their hardware is usually underpowered (though I believe the GC is underestimated) - but it is designed to meet the needs of what Nintendo wants to do on the platform. This means the hardware doesn't need to be overpowered (and thus expensive to manufacture) which I believe is the reason why 1st party stuff usually outshines the rest on their hardware and why Nintendo platforms are harder work for cross platform ports. And anyhow - what has hardware benchmark specs got to do with innovation?

I feel a bit sorry for anyone who hates on Nintendo which has always been the fashionable thing to do for some reason. To miss out on the stuff they make is a shame. On the whole their games are beautifully crafted with loads of deft touches for those who put the time in - and refreshingly - don't take themselves too seriously. Nintendo remember that they are a toy company and the others seem to have delusions of grandeur which in this day and age is mistaken for trying to create a "Holywood" experience which at best will replicate the crap that is shovelled out of tinseltown which only holds gaming back.

[TL]

I think it depends where you go really. Over at RG there is nothing but gushing praise and love for everything Nintendo most of the time and anyone who disagrees gets jumped on and accused of trolling. If you slag off Atari though then you are one of the cool kids and it doesn't matter how much you troll them you will never get told off.

Across the internet in general I think Nintendo do get a lot of love, except in modern gaming circles maybe where the Sony and MS fanboys like to deride them.

[davyk]

Yeah - there are a lot of Nintards who give the rest of us a bad name !!

Their online strategy has always puzzled me - and when you think they were doing online content as far back as the NES days it makes you wonder why they don't seem to get it.

Being a strong IP company faced with the web where lots of things are free - they are still trying to figure it out while Microsoft have definitely shown how it can be done,

It's not as if they don't know how to - Mario Kart Wii online is really well done - even has 2 player split screen online going and it's really slick. I think they are afraid of the whole scene with kids being exposed to swearing, grooming etc which has to be issue for them.

[TL]

It's not as if they don't know how to - Mario Kart Wii online is really well done - even has 2 player spit screen online going and its really slick. I think they are afraid of the whole scene with kids being exposed to swearing, grooming etc which has to be issue for them.

Good point! I never thought of that! You could have just hit the nail on the head there.

[DreamcastRIP]

SEGA!!

+1

The only real choice.

[nakamura]

I'm sure he does. I just don't take anything from EA seriously. They are a cancer on gaming and will cuddle up to whoever will make them the most money. They always have been.

Made some great games mind.

i'm struggling with the logic here:these guys were coders working for E.A, had bills to pay etc, should i doubt what Jeff Minter says about Jaguar Tempest 2000 in his making of...features, when ATARI really screwed up the Jaguar (and Lynx)?.

My logic is simple. John Romero has apparently state the Jaguar version of Doom to be the best version. As I am aware, you cannot strafe and turn in the Jaguar version which makes the game harder to play and stunts the gameplay of other versions. It was Laird who told me you can't strafe and turn, if he is correct, the Jaguar version is not the best version as it is missing a key gameplay feature.

I don't 100% trust what devs say to be honest.

[TL]

Carmack said that, not Romero.

[Rogue Trooper]

I'm sure he does. I just don't take anything from EA seriously. They are a cancer on gaming and will cuddle up to whoever will make them the most money. They always have been.

Made some great games mind.

i'm struggling with the logic here:these guys were coders working for E.A, had bills to pay etc, should i doubt what Jeff Minter says about Jaguar Tempest 2000 in his making of...features, when ATARI really screwed up the Jaguar (and Lynx)?.

My logic is simple. John Romero has apparently state the Jaguar version of Doom to be the best version. As I am aware, you cannot strafe and turn in the Jaguar version which makes the game harder to play and stunts the gameplay of other versions. It was Laird who told me you can't strafe and turn, if he is correct, the Jaguar version is not the best version as it is missing a key gameplay feature.

I don't 100% trust what devs say to be honest.

Well, personally, unless i'm into tin foil hat realms here, i have to 'trust' someones comments and it's not going to be the company's P.R people, nor am i going to base my opinion around their buisness practices, so that leaves the grunts, the people that code the games and work on the various platforms.

Carl Mey worked on:Rampage for the atari Lynx whilst at Epyx, Maniac Mansion whilst at Lucasfilm, started doing a banked Road effect for Andretti Racing on the NES before realising system could'nt handle it, so adapted it for the MD and thus created a super-fast scaling algorith that allowed several sprite images in addittion to the road effect, which was exactly like Mode 7, bar the rotating around the Z-Axis, so i'd wager he knew what he was talking about.

Since MD Road Rash he's gone onto work for SEGA, Namco, cramned the 1st FMV onto an N64 cart etc so he's not exactly got any reason to stay loyal to 1 company or format has he?.


You say you would'nt take the word of anyone who worked at E.A seriousily, fine, that's your call, but i'm curious, would you take what he said about say Lynx Ramapage seriousily when he worked at Epyx? or anything he said about Manic Mansion whilst working at Lucasfilm?.

[AmigaJay]

I'm sure he does. I just don't take anything from EA seriously. They are a cancer on gaming and will cuddle up to whoever will make them the most money. They always have been.

Made some great games mind.

i'm struggling with the logic here:these guys were coders working for E.A, had bills to pay etc, should i doubt what Jeff Minter says about Jaguar Tempest 2000 in his making of...features, when ATARI really screwed up the Jaguar (and Lynx)?.

My logic is simple. John Romero has apparently state the Jaguar version of Doom to be the best version. As I am aware, you cannot strafe and turn in the Jaguar version which makes the game harder to play and stunts the gameplay of other versions. It was Laird who told me you can't strafe and turn, if he is correct, the Jaguar version is not the best version as it is missing a key gameplay feature.

I don't 100% trust what devs say to be honest.

Romero is quoted saying the PS1 version is the best.

[DreamcastRIP]

I just don't take anything from EA seriously. They are a cancer on gaming

Very harsh indeed. Especially so coming from a Sony fan, lol!

[nakamura]

Since when am I a Sony fan? Just because I have Playstation branded consoles. You need to get this 'fan' nonsense out of your brain.

And whoops, got the Johns mixed up!

[Rogue Trooper]

I'm sure he does. I just don't take anything from EA seriously. They are a cancer on gaming and will cuddle up to whoever will make them the most money. They always have been.

Made some great games mind.

i'm struggling with the logic here:these guys were coders working for E.A, had bills to pay etc, should i doubt what Jeff Minter says about Jaguar Tempest 2000 in his making of...features, when ATARI really screwed up the Jaguar (and Lynx)?.

My logic is simple. John Romero has apparently state the Jaguar version of Doom to be the best version. As I am aware, you cannot strafe and turn in the Jaguar version which makes the game harder to play and stunts the gameplay of other versions. It was Laird who told me you can't strafe and turn, if he is correct, the Jaguar version is not the best version as it is missing a key gameplay feature.

I don't 100% trust what devs say to be honest.

I looked up EDGE's interview with I.D software where John Carmack talks about the Jaguar hardware and both Wolfenstien+Doom on Jaguar.

John C.says Wolfenstien on Jaguar is the best version on any platform, as he's spent weeks improving it (game runs full screen at 30 FPS, high Resolution graphics, 4X the detail of the PC version, sound at 22 KHz, which is 3X the rate of the PC version etc).


As for Jaguar DOOM:

Lighting calculations are vastly superior:PC ver.only had 256 useable colours, Jag version runs in 16 Bit CRY colour, this is a big improvement.So is it possible you've miss-understood the context in whichthe term 'best' version of, is used...?

where have you taken your John Romero quote from exactly?.

[TL]

You might like these threads if you havn't seem them before RT:

John Carmack talks about Wolfenstien 3D

John Carmack talks about the Jaguar