3D Polygon Games On 8/16-Bit Consoles

[onthinice]

The replays still make me laugh. That is neat that the Mega Drive version has the cars on the right side of the road.

[Rogue Trooper]

Do you know that a lot of reviews were written by different people that were actually quoted in the mags? I know that some mags did that, even some of the larger ones.
Also yes some of the nobody reviews are still going, many are not however.

Also review scores have the least meaning of anything in the gaming industry, even more so today.

And if you talk about the knowledge of the general public, go check out the thread on RG where people still don't even know the difference between 50/60hz or things like RGB.

Was in a rush so did'nt reply properly earlier, but i'll adress points 1 by 1 here.

1)Well aware of the various 'stunts' magazines of past have pulled, mentioned numerous examples on here before (Zzap64 reviewing unfinished C64 Op.Thunderbolt, giving tape Bobby Bearing high rating for sound, game had none, EDGE airbrushing Xbox DOA screens, C+VG reviewers admitting they did reviews based on P.R releases/box blurbs etc), plus read many interviews with Ex-Crash, ZZap, Zero, C.U etc reviewers in various magazines and on websites, where they give a detailed account of what went on behind the scenes, so i'm far from wet behind the ears when it comes to the reality.

2)You do realise just where a lot of Ex-Zzap reviewers for example ended up working and what games they've had direct influence on, right?

3)Review scores:growing up as a kid, my friends and i had very limited funds, so a review score in Zzap meant EVERYTHING, it really was the C64 Bible to us, just as Crash was to Speccy friends.In the 16 Bit days, we'd pour over reviews in The Games Machine, The ONE, ST Format etc, £25 was far too much to blow on a game without putting some form of reasearch into it.MD days we used Mean Machines and C+VG, so again, your seemingly speaking as the voice here, which has utterly no revelance to my youth.


You say i'm wasting time on quoting reviews from nobody reviewers from years back, who cares? etc, so i take it your fine with reviews of android based platforms being quoted on here or youtube videos like AVGN, i mean after all, in grand scheme of things they are nobodies.

I honestly found your 'attack' post very arrogant from a fellow poster viewpoint, let alone a forum MOD, if a post is of no interest, don't read it, start a thread discussing things you do want to read.I've put time in on here creating threads and if just 1 person benifits from what i've posted, i personally do not feel it's been a waste of time.Laird and myself were discussing scores, as i was with Onthinice.


I would'nt jump into a thread i had  interest in and post something like:You guys are wasting your time, who cares? i know i don't, it's just plain rude, if you cannot respect the thoughts of others on here, well...pretty sad day.


I've been supplying Laird with Mag scans, interviews, reviews, features etc for weeks now which i thought would be of interest to the folks on the forum and hopefully bring new faces here-Idea being we'd be seen as a site that covers all aspects of Retro and provides info for those who are searching for it.

You've shot down interview quotes saying you cannot trust the coder  because of who they worked for (which i find an utter nonsense), now your saying reviewers are nobody special.I just cannot find any common ground to get discussion going......


Oh and those nobody reviewers i grew up reading and often quote:

Jazza Rignall-Left Jurnolism to work at Virgin interactive, was V.P of games projects+designs before moving on...

Richard Leadbetter-Now does Digital foundary for Eurogamer.

Paul Glancey-Creative director Criterion, you know..Black, Burnout etc....

Garry Penn:was creative director at DMA Design, oversaw release of a minor game you might have heard of...GTA, later became head of development at Denki.

Do i see columns from these in a certain Retro publication i subscribe to (and i've witnessed you spend a lot of time defending)? NO-I get a Z-List reviewer and a Z-List celb.

[nakamura]

Attack? Are you actually serious? I did nothing of the sort.

We aren't talking about your youth or anyone elses, we are talking about now 25 odd years later. Yes reviews were a bible to you back then, but now they mean nothing.

I never said you are wasting your time, more that your own opinion is far more valid then some review from a long time ago, IMO. If the reviewer in question could explain why what was given what then it's a different situation.

[onthinice]

I have really enjoyed the reviews from the U.K. magazines. It's neat to compare how they are against U.S. magazines, because I like to collect and play old games.

For me at least, times have changed and I can no longer spend like a drunken sailor.

I'm going to be 42 this year and I have gout in both feet. Had it since I was in my 20's.

Currently a stay at home father because some companies do not tolerate an employee missing work. Can't blame them with health care costs rising. It is all business, nothing personal.

When bad days happen, I am laid up and need a cane or crutch to walk. Thankfully it has not hit both feet at the same time.

I probably have not helped with some of my comments. When bad days happen, I get really cynical. Negative is probably a better word. On those days I try to avoid the site and my apologies if I caused anyone to take offense.

Sharing this information with all of you, is just to show how much respect I have for the site and hope it continues to grow. Everyone's opinions and thoughts matter.

Thank you all for sharing them.

[TL]

Don't worry ice you are cool (excuse the pun!), it's great having you here!  :26:

Something a bit different, a 3D sports game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yFz8vfLKP4

[onthinice]

:113:

[Rogue Trooper]

I have really enjoyed the reviews from the U.K. magazines. It's neat to compare how they are against U.S. magazines, because I like to collect and play old games.

For me at least, times have changed and I can no longer spend like a drunken sailor.

I'm going to be 42 this year and I have gout in both feet. Had it since I was in my 20's.

Currently a stay at home father because some companies do not tolerate an employee missing work. Can't blame them with health care costs rising. It is all business, nothing personal.

When bad days happen, I am laid up and need a cane or crutch to walk. Thankfully it has not hit both feet at the same time.

I probably have not helped with some of my comments. When bad days happen, I get really cynical. Negative is probably a better word. On those days I try to avoid the site and my apologies if I caused anyone to take offense.

Sharing this information with all of you, is just to show how much respect I have for the site and hope it continues to grow. Everyone's opinions and thoughts matter.

Thank you all for sharing them.

For my 'sins'-Injured my back in very early years of working life, told there and then the damage was permenant and it'd be with me rest of my life, painkillers are a daily part of my life now and doing shift work does not make for a happy chap, lol.

I've always had an avid interest in games mags, i much prefer the ones of my youth and teenage years to what's served up today, built up a huge collection of physical mags over the years, but as i've moved, had to downsize drastically, so mag scans have been a godsend.

I'm finding i return far more to old copies of Zero, Gameszone, Zzap64, The Games Machine, Mean Machines, Arcade etc, started looking at Spectrum mags i missed out on at the time etc, where as i sail through the latest issue/s of things like RG, which no longer seem to hold my interest in way they once did.

Might be my age, desire to return to the glory days of gaming, thriving arcade scene, new technology that grabbed my attention (ie Panther+Jaguar from Atari, Konix Multisystem etc) as todays new hardware just leaving me cold.

I was led to believe that faster CPU's etc would not only see rapid increase in 3D power, but also in A.I routines, 3D reached point for myself where it's no longer 'wowing' me, everything from DC onwards has had enough grunt to get job done, i'm just waiting for the A.I to catch up.


Pleae keep posting the scans as/when you can, along with any thoughts, been very interesting getting views from other side of the pond.

[jdanddiet]

Gout is a mofo

Sympathies onthinice

[onthinice]

Thanks Rogue Trooper and hope to keep comparing reviews with you, as I really enjoy what you have posted.

Thanks Jdanddiet! Hope you find more time to post and share more of your thoughts!

Best wishes to you both!!!!

[TL]

We mentioned F-22 earlier in the thread but I just found a review scan for it from Mean Machines magazine:

http://www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/review ... ceptor.php

http://www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/pdf/f2 ... ptormd.pdf

[onthinice]

I really the review scans. Interesting to see what the reviewers thought at the time. I subscribed to a lot of magazines in the early 1990's. Most just set on shelves and then were packed away. So when reading them now, I discover lots of articles that were missed the first time.

[TL]

A very obscure Japanese game for the Sega Mega Drive with 3D polygon sections:

StarCruiser　intro(Megadrive)

[Gorf]

In another thread we went a bit off-topic talking about this after my purchase of Steel Talons for the Mega Drive. Elsewhere on the forum we are also talking about the port of Star Fox to the Mega Drive. This got me thinking and I thought it would make a great thread.

To quote this post:

Cannot think where i read interview with coder behind F-22 on MD, but in those pre-SVP chip days, i'm sure he+team used not only the M68000 of the MD to generate the polygon visuals, but also the Z80 and anything else they could fool into giving a little more power to the maths needed.

Sounded like some really creative coding for sure.

From what i recal, as well as the 2 processors, the coders tapped into the part of the MD hardware which 'read' the cartridge, talk about pulling power from every last area of the hardware.

Looking back at what the most talented coders got from the stock MD hardware, still amazes me today:Polygons, FMV, sprite Scaling etc.

The hardware limitations seemed to be viewed more as a challenge than an obstacle and better still, as well as being technically superb, games always seemed to be bloody great as well (Gunstar Heroes, Red Zone, F-22 etc).

This was a great way of exploiting the hardware of the MD and utilising the Z80 co-processor that was usually reserved for playing Master System games and driving the sound chip.

What other great examples are there?

Its funny how people forget that the Atari ST and Amiga were both polygon capable and even without a blitter and a second processor so I see no surprise that the Sega Genny can pull off polygon games with the same 68000 and yet an additional z-80.

[Gorf]

Cybermorph and Starfox were compared all too often back in the day which was wrong. Cybermorph and Vortex were much more alike in terms of gameplay and visuals.

Starfox was on fails are required extra chips on the cart and most of it was prerender, where as CyberMorph was true 3D freedom done in real time processing. Not to mention the 16 bit color of the Jaguar which the SNES could not do.

[Gorf]

I equate magazine game reviews with movie reviews. Useless. Remember according to the movie reviewers,
Star Wars was to be a major flop.