The Atari Jaguar Thread

Started by zapiy, January 26, 2011, 00:11:49 AM

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Rogue Trooper

3DO hardware seems to a tricky beast to pin down in terms of it's true 'power'.I know the 640X480 claims were false, hardware internal resolution is 320X240 or 320X480 and then upscaled by hardware into an A.A 640X480 image for output to TV.Colour wise? 16 Bit mode is used for moving images with 24 Bit Mode for static images.

Think Need For speed used digitised images wrapped around plolygon frame for the cars etc, backdrops are digitised images, road itself done via some clever coding routines which enabled it to be drawn to it's vanishing point.

nakamura

The roads in NFS were and still are very impressive.

Rogue Trooper

Looked bit more into 3DO claimed power and actual:

The ARM6 CPU is roughly equiv.to an Intel 486 running at 33 Mhz, but is it, as 3DO claimed '50X faster than a SNES or MD' in terms of number crunching?.No, 3Do copes with a round 6 Million instructions per sec (MIPS)-making it in raw numbers around 6X faster.

The hardware's real strength lies in it's specialised pair of animation engines, which organise graphics into 'animation cells', similar to the graphics engine in the Atari Lynx.These (3DO) cells are high res, full colour images that can be moved, scaled, rotated, warped, texture-mapped, lightsourced and made transparent with the 3DO's Cinematic software tools.These Cell engines draw the images while the RISC CPU calculates where they are going.These work independently of the CPU.


If your talking 3D Polygon games with texture mapping, 3DO is/was very fast for the time, but 3DO claimed the GPU could handle 20,000 Polys per second, but did'nt say if these were plain, flat shaded etc and it was made amongst the other false claims of resolution and processing power, so guessing this is theroy based, rather than true game performance.

It's DMA (Direct  Memory Access) engine is said to be another key strength(said to beat the PSone in this department), as it allowed to shift around huge chunks of data, without using the CPU.


So, if Need For speed was written to take advantage of the above strengths, i guess a Jaguar version would have had to have been written from scratch to take advantage of the Jaguar hardware's best abilities.

TL


Rogue Trooper

Quote from: "The Laird"
Quote from: "onthinice"After seeing some of the Jaguar racing games in another post.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions.

Could the Jaguar have achieved a Need for Speed type game similar to the 3DO and would better racing game graphics even be possible?

If not on the stock Jaguar then what about on the Jag CD?

Need For Speed was planned for the Jaguar but never released.

There is no doubt it could do it but there would be trade-offs versus the 3DO version. The Jaguar doesn't have hardware texture mapping like the 3DO and can't render as many polygons but it is faster and can display more colours and has higher resolution.

World Tour Racing is the closest thing on the Jaguar really but is an F1 track based racer. Need For Speed follows a single road with just a few bends so doesn't need to render anywhere near as many polygons, just what you can see by the side of the road and vehicles so you could cheat by using a lot of bitmaps instead. Road Rash on the 3DO does that but not sure about Need For Speed.


3DO Need For Speed steams a lot of assest off CD (thus giving far greater track detail and field of view), so it'd have to be a Jaguar CD game.The Jag's raw processing power i'd wager could have done even more with the real time physics used by the game, so it would have been very interesting to see a Jaguar CD version.

AmigaJay

Personally I'm not sure if they could have pulled it off, I mean it could have looked good, but I imagine the framerate would have to take a hit, as with other Jag games with lots of texture mapping....I guess we will never know I don't suppose anyone knows how far the Jag version got ?
Old School Gamer Since 1982 - Creator of various gaming websites and blogs 1998-2018

TL

Quote from: "AmigaJay"Personally I'm not sure if they could have pulled it off, I mean it could have looked good, but I imagine the framerate would have to take a hit, as with other Jag games with lots of texture mapping....I guess we will never know I don't suppose anyone knows how far the Jag version got ?

No idea, EA announced 5 games for the Jaguar but wanted to outsource the coding for them and by the time they did that the Jag was pretty much dead sadly. They were all going to be CD games.

The other games for those interested were John Madden, Road Rash, FIFA Soccer and Wing Commander 3.

Rogue Trooper

Quote from: "AmigaJay"Personally I'm not sure if they could have pulled it off, I mean it could have looked good, but I imagine the framerate would have to take a hit, as with other Jag games with lots of texture mapping....I guess we will never know I don't suppose anyone knows how far the Jag version got ?

Frame rate on 3DO Crash and Burn and Road rash was around the 20 FPS rate, both pulled data off CD, plus Road rash used bitmaps as well as Polygons.The Jaguar version i feel would have had far less texture -mapping than the 3DO version, but it could, if coded correctly used the hardware in areas where it was stronger, ie more colours, higher res backdrops, better physics.Yet to find a frame rate for 3DO Need For Speed, seen reviews say it was'nt that smooth or that fast, so guessing 20 fps at best?.Things like Bladeforce which are pushing impressive 3D for the system managed 30 mind.

TL

Well Hoverstrike CD on the Jag runs at an average of 20 FPS and that is heavily texture mapped. It has been said that the code could have been optimised further to get around 30 FPS. The original Hoverstrike ran at around 12-15 FPS so the CD version was already a big improvement. The source code is out there and the difference was made by moving more code away from the M68000 (with its 16-bit bus) over to the GPU, Blitter and OPL with their 64-bit bus. Hoverstrike CD apparently still uses the M68000 for some things that could also be moved over to improve speed further. Shame that engine was never used more and allowed to progress further as they got to know the Jaguar better and ironed out the kinks.

Arethius_RGC

True hover Strike CD is nice and quite impressive if this quality would have been the overall quality of the games the Jaguar would certainally had another fate.

Hover Strike is quite enjoyable but not as much as Iron Soldier 2. Fy favorite mech simulation (beside Steel Battalion on xbox).

I change subject with a news. The hack for Brett Hull Hockey is available for download

This hack includes :

- The stats of over 800 recent NHL players
- new graphics
- Team up to 32 players
- One legend team
- news text commentaries
- 2 new teams
- upgraded individual speed of the players

official news http://reboot.atari.org/new-reboot/news.html


 
 

TL

Quote from: "Arethius_RGC"I change subject with a news. The hack for Brett Hull Hockey is available for download

This hack includes :

- The stats of over 800 recent NHL players
- new graphics
- Team up to 32 players
- One legend team
- news text commentaries
- 2 new teams
- upgraded individual speed of the players

official news http://reboot.atari.org/new-reboot/news.html

Thanks for posting about Jaguar Hockey '13, I totally forgot!

Been so busy with other secret projects ;)

It's worth noting that you need a Skunkboard to play this incredibly good hack.

TrekMD

I just downloaded it.  I'll have to give it a try.

Going to the final frontier, gaming...


Shadowrunner

Yeah I was going to ask a certain mod to throw this on a disk for me but then I read that wont work  :20:  I really need to find one of the original cartridges that were made.

TL

Quote from: "Shadowrunner"Yeah I was going to ask a certain mod to throw this on a disk for me but then I read that wont work  :20:  I really need to find one of the original cartridges that were made.

I have both the CD and Cart versions of Brett Hull Hockey, it's a rather good game.

Shadowrunner

Quote from: "The Laird"
Quote from: "Shadowrunner"Yeah I was going to ask a certain mod to throw this on a disk for me but then I read that wont work  :20:  I really need to find one of the original cartridges that were made.

I have both the CD and Cart versions of Brett Hull Hockey, it's a rather good game.

So is your review based on the cart of the CD? I was led to believe the CD is pretty buggy compared to the cart, is it really that bad?