Hardest games you've played

[tomwaits]

Are most of these modern games really 'hard' or is it just frustration over poor controls, poor camera, poor storyline, etc... just not fun. My first thought for a difficult modern game was the final boss of Shadows of the Damned, but the difficulty was caused by a randomly reversing camera/controls and repeatedly having to restart from the last checkpoint. Took several tries but it didn't require any great skill to finish the game.

I think older games like GnG, Spelunker, Ikaruga are truly 'hard' because the difficulty is overcome by practice, memorization, and skill.

[Rogue Trooper]

Are most of these modern games really 'hard' or is it just frustration over poor controls, poor camera, poor storyline, etc... just not fun. My first thought for a difficult modern game was the final boss of Shadows of the Damned, but the difficulty was caused by a randomly reversing camera/controls and repeatedly having to restart from the last checkpoint. Took several tries but it didn't require any great skill to finish the game.

I think older games like GnG, Spelunker, Ikaruga are truly 'hard' because the difficulty is overcome by practice, memorization, and skill.

Ahh, but is a memory test really a test of the players 'skill'? If you know exactly when and where a bad guy is going to spawn, or pattern a boss takes in it's attack, are your reflexes etc being fully tested?.

I recal C64 Delta being quite hard, until you learnt the attack waves and from there on in, game eased up greatly, having things in games like no power up's respawn if you die on a boss or entering a fight with few slivers of health left, now that i'd say was a challenge.

So, i throw question out there:How do we, as gamers 'define' hard?.

[Vyothric]

Well there are few categories I suppose.

Games like shoot 'em ups always have unrealistic expectations of a humans reaction time (or mine at least).

Memorisation - certainly it can make a game easier once you've learned the patters of everything, but again...being human simply knowing how to do something doesn't mean I'll be able to do it perfectly every time. Or even well. It's just not that simple.

Games like the Shinobi series rely heavily on memorisation but I've never thought of one as being easy. They're among the hardest games I've completed.

For me, the only easy games are ones that only require skill. That is, once you've learned the mechanics of the game you're pretty much set. FPS & driving games often fall into this category.


(This made sense when I typed it, but it might not)

[tomwaits]

Even games with fixed enemies require more than just memorization... you need to be pretty precise on the controls to 1cc R-Type. And it takes a lot of practice... I'd say R-Type is a 'hard' game and a 1cc run is 'skill' even if you've memorized where every enemy is going to appear.

For me, hard games require an excessive combination of reflexes, precision, and memorization/pattern recognition. Or at least two of the three. Most of the retro games mentioned in this thread would probably qualify but games like Final Fantasy, Darksiders, or Shadows of the Damned are just frustrating and can easily be beaten with persistence instead of skill.

[Havantgottaclue]

If we're talking modern games, I'd say Catherine warrants a mention. There is an issue with the camera controls, as it's very difficult to see what you're doing when Vincent, your character, is climbing around the back of the blocks. You are under constant time pressure too - it's a hard, hard game.

Another one I was playing the other night which is very tricky is Dodonpachi Resurrection - certainly after playing Mushihimesama Futari it feels like something of a step up in terms of difficulty.

I've seen Darksiders 2 get a mention - I must admit I've not completed it, but I think my play time is pushing the 20 hour mark (I'd have to go in game to find out) so I reckon I am fairly close to the end. But the only real challenge is the bosses, and these are typical modern-day bosses that just require you to work out the method. Once you've worked out the way it's done, it's usually not too hard to implement.

Shadows of the Damned? I must admit I found the controls rather treacly. I am probably about half-way through that one. I wouldn't say it's excessively difficult, just a bit clunky.

As far as older games are concerned, I was a little surprised to see Turrican 2 mentioned earlier in the thread. I completed the C64 version of that in a weekend, albeit of more-or-less non-stop play. It could be difficult but there were lots of extra lives dotted around, and if you made a point of exploring around you'd very soon find yourself with 7 or 8 lives to spare. I completed the Amiga version too, and that's at a time where I barely completed anything - and seldom did I even expect to!

Project X was a game of notorious difficulty, but I have to say I didn't find it that bad - I generally expect shoot-'em-ups to present a challenge, and I'm not sure Project X was that different to whatever else was around.

Another entire genre that tended to be fiendishly difficult was single-screen platformers of the Manic Miner mould. Of course there's the famously unforgiving Technician Ted, which I've never played, but also rather infamous in the C64 world was the duo of Hercules and Gods&Heroes. These were visually very basic but apparently sadistic and addictive in equal measures. I must admit I've only ever briefly tried them. I never had much patience with games such as those ...

C64 Longplay - Hercules

[Arethius_RGC]

Excelelnt question what makes a game diffiuclt ? tomwaits says a combinaison I think he is right plus if you add the poor programming of a game you have some of the most frustrating games.

You allready listed some of them....

For me bad control can be really annoying the zelda plateformer on CD-i are the perfect examples poor control due to the limitation of the system make them almost unplayable.

Trevor Mc fur ion the Grescent Galaxy is alos for me one of the most difficult game but I know that soem poeple where able to finish it in one afternoon... So 2 questions
1. How is it possible for some people to stay sain enough to play Grescent galaxy until the end  ?
2. Why Was i not able to finish this game while I could finish POD on Gizmondo which is also quite difficult ? 

I played POD over and over for days and I finally got to the final level which can not be finish because it is a scoring game. But I played overt and over the Grescnet Galxy but I can hardly get through the First planet due to the level design, poor hit detection, etc...

Which game is the hardier ? POD or Grescent Galaxy ?

[TL]

I haven't completed Crescent Galaxy but I have made it to the last level. Have to admit though that I havn't played the game in many years now!

[Vyothric]

Updated my original post.

[guest5124]

I would have to say the hardest retro game I've ever played is Ghosts n Goblins. I broke many controllers trying to finish this game

[guest5130]

Probably the NES Castlevania for me - I just couldn't get any further than the Grim Reaper no matter how many attempts I had. The game is largely a memory test but constant stupid deaths and those Medusa Heads always foiled my attempts.

Thinking of fighting games, I have to mention Art of Fighting (the whole series though AoF3 is slightly easier), World Heroes 2 and Jet (the latter especially for it's nightmare final boss!) and Fatal Fury Wild Ambition (CPU level rockets every time at stage 3 and opponents become terminators!).

[TL]

https://youtu.be/U08jMHAdKP8

[TrekMD]

I'm waking this thread with this game:  Moon Cresta.  This is not an easy game!  Don't let the video fool you!

https://youtu.be/GFvPc1Tztwc

[JoeMusashi]

I've never played this but I've heard of it. Looks a lot like Galaga.

[TrekMD]

Yes, it does bear a resemblance but this one is tougher!

[wyldephang]

Wow, this thread was before my time!  Some of the most difficult games for me are the R-Type, Gradius, and Thunder Force style shoot-'em-ups. I liken the gameplay to being a running back in the NFL and trying to punch through the defensive line. Shoot-'em-ups, especially the "bullet hell" ones, like to set a wall of death in front of you and make you wriggle your way around it. Despite this, I love shoot-'em-up games for their simplicity of gameplay and the attractive, anime-inspired art styles. Of course, I've played the Contras, Castlevanias, Mega Mans, et al., and remember those games being very challenging as well.

On the RPG side of things, I do remember having some trouble with Phantasy Star II. One of the most annoying mechanics was that each party member would join your squad at level 1 regardless of how late in the game you acquired them. You'd always have to backtrack to get their level up to quota because some of the enemy encounters are absolutely brutal. Also, The 7th Saga for the SNES was fairly difficult in the sense that, at any given time, one unbalanced enemy encounter could almost guarantee death. There is a (somewhat infamous within the 7th Saga fan community) YouTube video detailing this balancing issue where the player can't even survive one of the first random encounters in the game. Even if he spends a lot of money on potions, he barely has enough of them to offset the damage sustained from one battle. My experience with the game has been different--possibly because I picked a different starting character and I persevered till I was able to add another character to the party. But for that initial first third of the game where you have to fight solo, it's a grind. It was satisfying to beat.