Retro Video Gamer

Welcome to Retro Video Gamer => Announcements and Feedback => Topic started by: zapiy on April 16, 2018, 19:20:07 PM

Title: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: zapiy on April 16, 2018, 19:20:07 PM
Evening all,

Its with regret that I have to post this thread, we have always been open about self promo and I think we will remain that way but there is a growing trend to only use RVG as a YouTube update site, this we can not allow if there is no activity elsewhere, we are a site that produces some fantastic content, like our reviews and interviews but none of these are posted into..

So with immediate effect, there will be no advertising allowed unless there is equal amount of activity elsewhere in the RVG forums, I know this may not be popular with a few of you and you may well decide to leave and as much as I don't want that, the growth of RVG is paramount and in some peoples eyes we have become and YouTube advert site.

RVG will always welcome you and should you need more info on this please pm me and I will happily discuss this with you.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: Greyfox on April 16, 2018, 19:48:47 PM
I also have to second this decision as we have been in debate in relation to this recent issue here at RVG and was globally voted by the admin team that for the preservation of our site and forum as a whole needed to take action in relation to members simply posting their latest youtube video and then leaving the site thereafter, leaving existing members and especially our new member click baiting into youtube members posts and then been redirected away from our website they came to visit in the first instant ending in them diverting them away from other content on the forum they could be interacting with.

We are not saying that people can no longer post youtube video links, but we will not tolerate video link spamming here unless you the "member" will be required and asked to participate with other like-minded individuals across the many sections of the forum of your choosing and not simply dump and bail. I myself run my own youtube channel and do post videos myself here from time to time, but not because I'm an admin does this entitle me to do so, but because i believe in the community firstly and love to chat and reply to those that make the effort to interact with the members and the RVG team.

Thank you all for your time in understanding our concerns.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: DeadVoivod on April 17, 2018, 06:32:19 AM
Did not want to mention this, I'm not here since long time, although I know the site for quite some time, but these YouTube threads are not interesting for me at all, as I can see that, guess where, exactly on YouTube itself.

If there would be 1 single YouTube thread where all the people wanna post in, fine, but several threads that get updated almost daily, no thanks. Plus always posting the new uploaded video straight away to the site, is indeed advertising them. 
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: zapiy on April 17, 2018, 08:49:34 AM
Hence the change of heart, I must say it really is with regret but your not the first member to raise a concern and that prompted the change.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: Simon_G on April 17, 2018, 17:48:01 PM
Good decision guys.  Makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: zapiy on April 17, 2018, 17:48:36 PM
Thanks Simon.  8)
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: guest6253 on April 17, 2018, 22:04:18 PM
Good move, imho. Thanks for the heads-up about the policy change. :-)

Mark Little
The Atari Lynx HandyCast
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: Cryptic33 on April 17, 2018, 22:36:59 PM
No problem with me. In fact I think it is good to make the distinction.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: surfted on April 17, 2018, 23:25:58 PM
I agree as well, it doesn't add to the community...
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: Vadergb on April 17, 2018, 23:36:08 PM
I've found some of the youtube self promotion content pretty decent but it should be kept to a single thread for each poster and that they should be encouraged to take part in the channel if they want to continue to post.

Decent decision from the admins tbh.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: nosweargamer on April 18, 2018, 01:43:21 AM
 I have enjoyed my time on RVG for years and have found it to be a very friendly site, which is one of the main reasons I have shared my work regularly here. Over the years, I have promoted the site and participated in the chat box and other threads. However, as a very busy YT creator, I do focus mostly on sharing my work in my main thread, and responding to any comments in that thread. Doing what I do is a TON of work, and usually what I mentioned is all I have time for.  But I do it not just for me, but for the site. It has always been my hope that my work would not only be enjoyed by fellow retro gamers, but it would also help bring attention to the forums I choose to share my work with. Based on the numbers, I have helped bring tens of thousands of views to the forums and hopefully, some of them were new visitors. I say this not to brag, that is not my personality, but to show my heart as a YT guy who would both like to grow his channel, but at the same time, help grow others as well, including the forums here.

With that being said, I do have some questions regarding this policy.

1) Assuming I keep doing what I have been doing since 2014, am I still welcome here, or should I leave?
2) Does this apply to all users, whether they are sharing work in the form as a podcast, book, magazine, homebrew game, etc., or is this just a YouTube thing? (As someone who has done both podcasting and YouTubing, from my experience it seems YouTubers are viewed far more negatively, which I find unjustified and unfair)
3) If someone like myself did leave, but a fan on the forums sometimes shared my videos, would they be asked to leave as well? (No, I am not planning anything of the sort and wouldn't stoop to such levels, but I would hate for one of my viewers to be treated that way and would want to at least be able to warn them if that were the case)

Personally, while I understand how someone who creates multiple threads simply to promote their work and never interact can be a nuisance, as mentioned earlier. I have no problem with a YouTuber, Podcaster, Author or Homebrewer sharing their work as long as they interact and aren't constantly making multiple, needless threads simply to self promote. Not only does it add content, but they may end up becoming a friend of the site, or they may end up leading someone else to the site. And beside, no one is forcing anyone to view anything. If I see a thread I'm not interested in, I simply don't read it.

But at the same time, I do respect those in charge of the site. If there was every a day when I felt it was time for me to leave, I would be sad, but would understand. I hope I've been a help to the site and hope to get some clarification for my questions.


Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: TrekMD on April 18, 2018, 03:49:46 AM
Hi NSG.  Glad to know you've enjoyed your time in RVG and that you find the forum to be friendly.  That is, of course, what we want the forum to be.  We have, however, received feedback that there are sometimes nothing but posts about YT videos, which is why we've decided to address this.  Our goal is just to get more interaction in the forum.

To quote one of your own sentences above:
Quote
I have no problem with a YouTuber, Podcaster, Author or Homebrewer sharing their work as long as they interact and aren't constantly making multiple, needless threads simply to self promote.

That is exactly our feeling.  No one is going to be asked to leave for posting videos of anyone on YouTube or about a book or homebrew.  We post videos all the time that are pertinent to topics or that may generate discussion, so that is not an issue. 

You are, of course, welcome to stay and continue to post but what we are asking for is to contribute also in the forum in general.  I hope that clarifies your concerns.  If not, let us know either here or by PM.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: nosweargamer on April 18, 2018, 05:40:51 AM
That is exactly our feeling.  No one is going to be asked to leave for posting videos of anyone on YouTube or about a book or homebrew.  We post videos all the time that are pertinent to topics or that may generate discussion, so that is not an issue. 

You are, of course, welcome to stay and continue to post but what we are asking for is to contribute also in the forum in general.  I hope that clarifies your concerns.  If not, let us know either here or by PM.  Thanks.

Kinda, but I still need clarification.

Here's what I originally heard: YouTubers, do more posting elsewhere or we are kicking you out.
Me: So now what I've done that has brought thousands of views to the site is no longer enough?

I guess I'm feeling singled out since my specialty is video. Would I be singled out if instead of making videos, I turned my videos into separate text topics? Every single video I make is a chance to start a discussion, which I figured helped forum sites and might bring a new audience. And I don't share it with everyone, only the forum sites I like and want to help. And time is not easy to come by for me. Sometimes, I only have the time to share what I worked hard to make and sometimes I don't even have time for that.

Before this change was posted, I was already feeling like I have enough burdens to handle and trying to figure out how to do a better job at that. I don't want to feel stressed visiting a forum site, but now I feel like I'm asked to do more than what I'm doing if I want to share my work.

Here's my thought: It's a mistake to single out a group of people if you want to get them more involved. With YTers, I have found that those who are in it solely for themselves, don't last long on forums like this. And just like any group, there are bad YTers and good YTers. But when you single out the whole group, you risk losing them all, plus any new members they may have brought to the forums.

Do you want more action in the forums? Here are my suggestions:
1) Encourage the leadership to start more topics themselves (Maybe you have)
2) Share more threads on social media (Maybe you have)
3) Start contests or forum games (Maybe you have)
4) Ask content creators, such as YTers and Podcasters, to plug the forums more in their stuff, and in exchange, you'll plug their stuff more on your social media accounts and such (Maybe you have, and btw, I have plugged this site before without asking for anything in return)
5) Instead of trying to push certain people to do more and possibly pushing them away in the process, ask for suggestions on how to increase activity.

The hard truth is that forums everywhere have diminished, with sites like Facebook taking their place. Every forum site I know has seen decline, some more than others. I'm old school. I like forums. That's why I try to add content to the ones I like. That's why I take some time every week to do that. If I was in it just for me, I'd probably be better served focusing on doing more on Twitter and opening an Instagram account.

But now I feel like I'm being told my work is not good enough. Somehow it's a nuisance.
I'm a retro gamer who enjoys sharing my hobby, but I feel like because I do it in video form, it's not welcome here.

Here's what I need clarification on: Does the leadership here currently view me as a nuisance or as someone who brings something of value to the forums?

Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: Corporal Jonlan on April 18, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
I know it's probably redundant but I would like to ask this anyway, just to feel safe.

I made and posted on YouTube videos promoting games I authored. Is it still all right to post them whenever I announce a new title in the forum? Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: zapiy on April 18, 2018, 14:59:34 PM
Yes mate, this is really about the need to stop just those wanting to only promote their channels.. You contribute in many other ways and that allows you to self promote.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: zapiy on April 18, 2018, 18:03:41 PM
That is exactly our feeling.  No one is going to be asked to leave for posting videos of anyone on YouTube or about a book or homebrew.  We post videos all the time that are pertinent to topics or that may generate discussion, so that is not an issue. 

You are, of course, welcome to stay and continue to post but what we are asking for is to contribute also in the forum in general.  I hope that clarifies your concerns.  If not, let us know either here or by PM.  Thanks.

Kinda, but I still need clarification.

Here's what I originally heard: YouTubers, do more posting elsewhere or we are kicking you out.
Me: So now what I've done that has brought thousands of views to the site is no longer enough?

I guess I'm feeling singled out since my specialty is video. Would I be singled out if instead of making videos, I turned my videos into separate text topics? Every single video I make is a chance to start a discussion, which I figured helped forum sites and might bring a new audience. And I don't share it with everyone, only the forum sites I like and want to help. And time is not easy to come by for me. Sometimes, I only have the time to share what I worked hard to make and sometimes I don't even have time for that.

Before this change was posted, I was already feeling like I have enough burdens to handle and trying to figure out how to do a better job at that. I don't want to feel stressed visiting a forum site, but now I feel like I'm asked to do more than what I'm doing if I want to share my work.

Here's my thought: It's a mistake to single out a group of people if you want to get them more involved. With YTers, I have found that those who are in it solely for themselves, don't last long on forums like this. And just like any group, there are bad YTers and good YTers. But when you single out the whole group, you risk losing them all, plus any new members they may have brought to the forums.

Do you want more action in the forums? Here are my suggestions:
1) Encourage the leadership to start more topics themselves (Maybe you have)
2) Share more threads on social media (Maybe you have)
3) Start contests or forum games (Maybe you have)
4) Ask content creators, such as YTers and Podcasters, to plug the forums more in their stuff, and in exchange, you'll plug their stuff more on your social media accounts and such (Maybe you have, and btw, I have plugged this site before without asking for anything in return)
5) Instead of trying to push certain people to do more and possibly pushing them away in the process, ask for suggestions on how to increase activity.

The hard truth is that forums everywhere have diminished, with sites like Facebook taking their place. Every forum site I know has seen decline, some more than others. I'm old school. I like forums. That's why I try to add content to the ones I like. That's why I take some time every week to do that. If I was in it just for me, I'd probably be better served focusing on doing more on Twitter and opening an Instagram account.

But now I feel like I'm being told my work is not good enough. Somehow it's a nuisance.
I'm a retro gamer who enjoys sharing my hobby, but I feel like because I do it in video form, it's not welcome here.

Here's what I need clarification on: Does the leadership here currently view me as a nuisance or as someone who brings something of value to the forums?

This is not an anti-youtube decision, its a decision based way to many single thread updates by everyone on their channels, If for example half were active elsewhere, there would be no issue, as it currently stands, everyone posts and leaves again and that we can not just allow without dialogue and here we are.

Now let me spin some of your thoughts so you get and idea of why we are doing this, you say that your videos take you a lot of time and effort and therefore leave you little time for chit chat on forums, this is the same for us in terms of our content, like the interviews, these take hours to prep and arrange but none of those who post their videos have replied or asked these devs questions, you can't tell me from the list of devs we have interviewed no one has liked their games??

I am not asking for 100 posts a week, maybe a few here and there and then the world is ok in my eyes, lets be honest, a vibrant RVG is only going to be good for you guys as much as it is us.

How many forums like RVG allow what we have all this time? None or very few.

Yes forums are fading, and thats been a battle, facebook as its issues, I don't ever expect this place to be a hive of activity like the early days but unless we control this now, I fear we become just a place for people to advertise on with no other input.

Do we or I value you? Yes, I want you all to stay, I want you all to work with us, help us and we will help you. Participate in some chit chat. You personally are very clued up, i'm sure some of your knowledge deserves to be in the written word and not just here, you have to make your own mid up mate, I want none of you to go, I have asked for help before and none was forth coming, I thank you for your promo of us in the past and I'd love it to continue..



Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion.
Post by: wyldephang on April 18, 2018, 22:48:20 PM
But now I feel like I'm being told my work is not good enough. Somehow it's a nuisance.
I'm a retro gamer who enjoys sharing my hobby, but I feel like because I do it in video form, it's not welcome here.

Here's what I need clarification on: Does the leadership here currently view me as a nuisance or as someone who brings something of value to the forums?
My intuition says that's not at all what they are saying, NSG. It has nothing to do with the quality of your content nor the medium in which you present it (video) and, probably, more to do with the fact that YouTube videos are directing people off-site. I imagine RVG would like to promote content here at home. My understanding is that everyone here values your expertise and your terrific content. But anytime a poster leaves RVG to watch a YouTube video, the community here is in danger of shrinking a little. The ensuing comments become the YouTube channel's comments, the views their views, the subscribers their subscribers, and RVG is treated as little more than a launchpad to facilitate that exchange. If I have misunderstood the stance RVG has taken, I apologize for getting involved, but that is the way I interpret it.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: TrekMD on April 19, 2018, 02:39:26 AM
No worries, wyldephang.  No need to apologize. 

NSG, you're not a nuisance.  Your content is great and you have contributed in other threads from time to time.  That's all we ask for. 
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: Dreamcast Gamer on April 20, 2018, 19:30:50 PM
I am fully aware of how time consuming YouTube can be and I understand that many of you are working other jobs as well (currently, I am not working any other job), but I believe that everyone can spend at least 10-15 minutes every day in other sections of the forum.  I'd say that at least 1 or 2 non self-promotion posts everyday and only 1 self-promotion post every 2 days (even if you are uploading daily) would be just fine.  If you're going to be live streaming, posting it in the chat box might be a better idea than bumping your own thread, especially if you're posting the link just minutes before you go live.

All we ask is a little more participation elsewhere on the site.  A forum flooded with endless YouTube videos and almost no regular forum conversations doesn't look good to the guests reading the site and other members who aren't interested in watching any videos.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: zapiy on April 21, 2018, 09:14:18 AM
All we ask is a little more participation elsewhere on the site.  A forum flooded with endless YouTube videos and almost no regular forum conversations doesn't look good to the guests reading the site and other members who aren't interested in watching any videos.

This basically covers the reasoning.

Thanks fella.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: ScouseMouse on April 21, 2018, 14:09:30 PM
I actually agree with the new rule, despite the fact I have a Youtube channel where I upload daily and so link those videos here. It's easy to say it not after the the rule change but very recently I was feeling bad about the fact I post a lot of my videos here and don't interact as much as I could.

I'll definitely be sticking around both to interact more and post some videos.

One question I have... in this thread people seem to be complaining about new threads opening up all the time for self promo and they should all be in 1 place... but as far as I'm aware there's a section of the forum called Retro Youtube Forum and I have just ONE thread where all of my videos have been posted, I assume that's what others are doing and it seems like that's exactly what the section was designed for...

Has the issue arisen because people are making new threads for each particular video and doing it on all different parts of the forum? Cos that would definitely be very annoying, but I figured the Youtube section of the forum was designed for the purpose most people use it for, and then obviously if you don't wanna watch Youtube videos you'd never go in there and thus never see any self promo.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: Dreamcast Gamer on April 21, 2018, 18:21:26 PM
One question I have... in this thread people seem to be complaining about new threads opening up all the time for self promo and they should all be in 1 place... but as far as I'm aware there's a section of the forum called Retro Youtube Forum and I have just ONE thread where all of my videos have been posted, I assume that's what others are doing and it seems like that's exactly what the section was designed for...

Has the issue arisen because people are making new threads for each particular video and doing it on all different parts of the forum? Cos that would definitely be very annoying, but I figured the Youtube section of the forum was designed for the purpose most people use it for, and then obviously if you don't wanna watch Youtube videos you'd never go in there and thus never see any self promo.
I noticed that too and I personally haven't seen much of that on RVG.  I know I've done that once because I had announced a retro gaming film I was working on (cancelled recently), but other than the odd time like that, I can't remember.  Perhaps the others can recall a time when this was an issue.
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: TrekMD on April 21, 2018, 22:31:32 PM
It's mostly been people just adding video after video with no participation anywhere else in the forum.  Glad that you'll be sticking around ScouseMouse.  All we want is an active community.  ;)
Title: Re: Changes at RVG on Self promotion. (Youtubers)
Post by: zapiy on April 23, 2018, 22:56:20 PM
The YouTube forum was designed that member could post their videos they create in one area.

What’s happened is over a course of a few months that was the only forum some where posting in.

Hence we needed to clarify the situation x.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk