Retro Video Gamer

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Here's another retro system that needs little in terms of introduction, the Sega Master System.  RVG currently does not have a review section for games for the system, so if anyone out there is interested in writing reviews for the console, let us know.    This thread, however, is to discuss the console itself. 

To get the discussion started, I'm going to post the video review from Classic Game Room for the SMS.  Have a view and see what you think.  So, is this truly the Master System? 


[align=center:3km45kvb]Classic Game Room reviews SEGA MASTER SYSTEM controller (//http)[/align:3km45kvb]

I used to play Wonder Boy In Monster Land all the time, I was completely addicted to it for a couple months. I also loved Psycho Fox, Spellcaster and Time Soldiers.

If I had a complaint, it would be those stupid Sega Card games. I don't think I ever played a good one of those. And really, what a bunch of nonsense to have purposely worse games. They just seemed like a complete waste of time and a marketing failure, I mean who came up with that idea?

I loved my SMS back in the day. It was a far superior machine to the NES and deserved to do better in other countries such as the US. They really missed out on it. I spent hours and hours on games such as Wonderboy 3, Zillion, Rocky, Y's, Phantasy Star, Kung Fu Kid, Black Belt etc. It's conversion of R-Type was very impressive too.

Quote from: "64bitRuss"If I had a complaint, it would be those stupid Sega Card games. I don't think I ever played a good one of those. And really, what a bunch of nonsense to have purposely worse games. They just seemed like a complete waste of time and a marketing failure, I mean who came up with that idea?

Were the card-based SMS games a complete marketing failure though? I don't know the answer to that question, hence why I'm asking, btw.

The SMS launched in a European games industry almost totally dominated by the 8-bit home computers of the time, e.g. ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, etc. Games for those computers were massively cheaper to buy than games for games consoles. So Sega having launched an 8-bit console in Europe when they did that also offered games on cards for a price significantly below that of its cartridge-based games may possibly have played a role in helping persuade a good many 8-bit computer owners to buy the console.

Yes, I'm aware that Sega removed the Sega Card slot with the release of the Master System II. Maybe by the time that revised hardware was released Sega felt that consumers in Europe and Oceania (where the SMS wiped the floor with the NES) had adapted to being willing to pay more for games. Or maybe by that time people were more accepting of the fact that they needed to spend the extra on SMS cartiridge-based games if they wanted the best games, i.e. the feature's withdrawal wasn't due to it having been a marketing failure but that it no longer was as necessary as it once had been.

To put what I'm saying in more practical terms, as a then teenaged Speccy owner used to paying between £1.99 to £9.99 for games I recall walking into Boots and laughing at the relatively obscene prices Nintendo were asking for NES games but being less appalled by the prices Sega were asking for card-based SMS games. I don't imagine I was the only one who had such a reaction at the time and I therefore imagine that Sega's console having some lower priced games proved a successful tool in helping market the console to a generation of fellow 8-bit computer owners who were by then looking to move on to another games system.

The SMS is one of my favourite consoles, and brings back some great memories. I played my cousins Master System and then had to go straight out and get one. Alex Kidd in Miracle World was quickly followed by Sonic 1. There was a games shop near Chessington which was externally painted like the Sega boxes with the blue on white lines, and they carried loads of Sega games and it became a regular haunt of mine anytime I was working around that area or passing it.
Loads of great games on the SMS, Lucky Dime Caper, The Ninja, Enduro Racer, Operation Wolf with the light Phaser and also Gangster Town and Laser Ghost.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head DC, the SMS card games were only £9.99 - thus making them cost the same as a full price Speccy or C64 game. This made the SMS seem much more affordable than the NES and more in line with the price range of 16-bit computers (£9.99 budget/£19.99-£24.99) full price.

I had friends with Master Systems when I was younger but it never really appealed to me that much, sure it was better than the NES but was still overshadowed by the 16-bit computers. I have learned to appreciate it a little bit more these days as I wrote the SMS section for Homebrew Heroes and played a lot of SMS games in the process. I actually just bought a Power Base converter for my Mega Drive so I could pick up a few of the SMS games I really enjoy such as Choplifter, Master Of Darkness, Zillon 1&2 and Enduro Racer.

Quote from: "The Laird"You pretty much hit the nail on the head DC, the SMS card games were only £9.99 - thus making them cost the same as a full price Speccy or C64 game. This made the SMS seem much more affordable than the NES...

When typing my previous post I couldn't remember the price of SMS card-based games so cheers for that.

So instant-loading console games for the same price as full price cassette-based Speccy/C-64/CPC games. That must have been a huge factor in helping convince legions of European gamers to,

* 'upgrade' to an SMS from their Speccy/C-64/CPC
* buy an SMS in preference to a NES

I know delusional Nintendo fans like to believe that the only reason for why Sega's Master System sold so well in Europe and Oceania was because Ninty didn't take those territories seriously - heck, we've seen that myth peddled yet again to some extent in this very month's Retro Gamer magazine.

Fact is, there was much that Sega did with the Master System that was right and all credit is due to them (plus their (then) regional distribtors such as Mastertronic in the UK, Ariolasoft in Germany, etc) for what they achieved by wiping the floor with the supposedly all-conquering NES in those territories plus Tectoy's notable success with licensed Master Systems and games in South America.

Quote from: "64bitRuss"I used to play Wonder Boy In Monster Land all the time, I was completely addicted to it for a couple months. I also loved Psycho Fox, Spellcaster and Time Soldiers.

If I had a complaint, it would be those stupid Sega Card games. I don't think I ever played a good one of those. And really, what a bunch of nonsense to have purposely worse games. They just seemed like a complete waste of time and a marketing failure, I mean who came up with that idea?

I'd have to have a rummage, but seem to recal The Games Machine here in UK, did a feature on these 'smart cards' that were taking Japan by storm and how various games companies were looking into using them as they were cheap to produce, needed less packaging etc.

As well as Sega did'nt the MSX and NEC TurboGraphx-16 use some form of Rom cards for games to a degree?

Think Sega soon gave up on them due to games requiring lot more memory than you could fit on a Rom card.What was there, all of 12 games released on Rom card on MS?

The PC Engine/TurboGrafx uses ROM cards (or HuCards as they are called) and the Atari Lynx also uses ROM cards as standard too. Quite funny seen as they are both custom 8/16-bit hybrid systems based on a 6502 CPU.

The Cheetah/Bit Corp. Gamate also used ROM Cards as a storage medium.

I know there were cartridge games for the MSX but I don't know about card games.

The Sega SG-1000 (the predecessor to the SMS) also had the option of using card games too. There is a complete list of card games for both the SG-1000 and SMS here: http://segaretro.org/Sega_Card (//http)

I always assumed that it was the large arcade culture in the US that led to the NES prevailing over the SMS here. I wanted an NES because I was playing Super Mario Bros and Excitebike on the .vs arcade machines. I didn't really know much about the SMS, as I don't recall it being heavily advertised.

It is curious to me why the SMS is so popular in the UK and Europe. I'm of the opinion, through experience, that back in those days, and through the 1990's, arcades played a huge role influencing the direction of home console markets. Having never been to the UK or Europe, I have no clue how large the arcade 'culture' was in those places. I can tell you that here in America, you couldn't go to a shopping plaza and not have an arcade. I grew up in a town of 20,000 people, and I had 4 different large arcades I could ride my bicycle to 7 days a week. One was walking distance from my home, a 10 minute walk down the street. Arcades were absolutely everywhere. Even a machine or two at every gas station and convenience store. Those Nintendo .vs cabinets were widespread here. I think that has to be a major factor over the NES dominance in the USA.

As a UK magazine buyer for as long as i can remember, it's been galling these past few years to read the same lines, printed as fact, when it comes to the MS compared to the Nes....


That the MS could'nt match the Nes in terms of quality software:Ohh right so it's not as if the likes of:Prince Of Persia, The Terminator (better than the MD cart.version!), Phantasty Star, the Zillion series, Sonic, Spiderman, Fantasy Zone, Impossible Mission, Bubble Bobble, Galaxy Force, Gauntlet, Rocky, Master Of Darkness, Wonderboy III, R-Type, Rampage, Op.Wolf, Rambo 3, Powerstrike, Fire And Forget II etc etc were anything to shout about, eh media?

The Joe Public in UK ignored the MS as we were all sat here, dicks in our hands eagerly awaiting the Nes to arrive to save us and industry or give those poor souls who'd previousily never touched a video game, thier 1st taste...

And had Nintendo really put effort into Europe things would have been even better for the Nes over here, MS would have been destroyed overnight...hello? Nintendo had 2 cracks at Europe 1st with Mattel, then handling it themselves.

Surely Sega deserve credit along with their European counterparts in terms of software houses, for what they did achieve with such a superb little system.

The soundchip i hated, but the MD to MS conversions often had my jaw dropping in what was achieved, so great to see a dedicated thread to the underdog here at a time i seem to be drowning in Nes related stuff in the publications i buy.

It is funny you say that Russ because one of the key reasons the SMS did so well in the UK especially was the arcade culture!!!!

People here wanted to play arcade games in the home and the SMS offered that with games like Shinobi, Altered Beast, Space Harrier, Outrun, Chase HQ, Choplifter, Rampage, R-Type and the list goes on.

While most of the "arcade games" on the NES were completely different the games you actually played in the arcade. Titles like Strider, Bionic Commando, Ninja Gaiden, Rygar, Adventure Island, Toki, Temple Of Doom, Dragon's Lair, Skull & Crossbones and the Double Dragon games are very different to their arcade counterparts.

We had a few of those Vs. Playchoice cabinets over here but people knew they were just a NES in a arcade cabinet with timed play so saw them as a complete rip-off when put next to far superior real arcade games. Arcades were everywhere too and if we were going to pay £30 for a game we wanted it to be just like the one we played in the arcades and not some bland generic platformer with the same name.

Quote from: "64bitRuss"I always assumed that it was the large arcade culture in the US that led to the NES prevailing over the SMS here. I wanted an NES because I was playing Super Mario Bros and Excitebike on the .vs arcade machines. I didn't really know much about the SMS, as I don't recall it being heavily advertised.

It is curious to me why the SMS is so popular in the UK and Europe. I'm of the opinion, through experience, that back in those days, and through the 1990's, arcades played a huge role influencing the direction of home console markets. Having never been to the UK or Europe, I have no clue how large the arcade 'culture' was in those places. I can tell you that here in America, you couldn't go to a shopping plaza and not have an arcade. I grew up in a town of 20,000 people, and I had 4 different large arcades I could ride my bicycle to 7 days a week. One was walking distance from my home, a 10 minute walk down the street. Arcades were absolutely everywhere. Even a machine or two at every gas station and convenience store. Those Nintendo .vs cabinets were widespread here. I think that has to be a major factor over the NES dominance in the USA.

From personal exp.Sega were the arcade name over here for a lot of us.The likes of Out Run, Space Harrier, Enduro Racer etc were huge.We had to put up with some very mixed results in terms of home conversions to the 8 Bit micro's etc, but you could'nt seem to move in magazines for huge adverts for conversions of The Latest Sega Arcade smash!!Thunderblade, Afterburner+Outrun being the biggies, with Space Harrier, Alien Syndrome+Power Drift happily bobbing along.

Plus never under estimate the impact Sonic had over here, at the time? everywhere, real major event at the time.

Quote from: "The Laird"The PC Engine/TurboGrafx uses ROM cards (or HuCards as they are called) and the Atari Lynx also uses ROM cards as standard too. Quite funny seen as they are both custom 8/16-bit hybrid systems based on a 6502 CPU.

The Cheetah/Bit Corp. Gamate also used ROM Cards as a storage medium.

I know there were cartridge games for the MSX but I don't know about card games.

The Sega SG-1000 (the predecessor to the SMS) also had the option of using card games too. There is a complete list of card games for both the SG-1000 and SMS here: http://segaretro.org/Sega_Card (//http)

Guess with something like the Gamemate, cards would have been ideal, cheap, your not looking at epic sized games etc.On systems like the Lynx though, how 'big' did the cart sizes go? seem to recal some issues concerning Lynx Eye Of The Beholder (which never came out, did it?) needing a big cart.

Did technology increases allow for 'bigger' cards without incurring bigger production costs in later years?.

Quote from: "The Laird"It is funny you say that Russ because one of the key reasons the SMS did so well in the UK especially was the arcade culture!!!!

People here wanted to play arcade games in the home and the SMS offered that with games like Shinobi, Altered Beast, Space Harrier, Outrun, Chase HQ, Choplifter, Rampage, R-Type and the list goes on.

While most of the "arcade games" on the NES were completely different the games you actually played in the arcade. Titles like Strider, Bionic Commando, Ninja Gaiden, Rygar, Adventure Island, Toki, Temple Of Doom, Dragon's Lair, Skull & Crossbones and the Double Dragon games are very different to their arcade counterparts.

We had a few of those Vs. Playchoice cabinets over here but people knew they were just a NES in a arcade cabinet with timed play so saw them as a complete rip-off when put next to far superior real arcade games. Arcades were everywhere too and if we were going to pay £30 for a game we wanted it to be just like the one we played in the arcades and not some bland generic platformer with the same name.

Re:The Playchoice games:I can always remember the look of utter dissapoint on friends and strangers faces when they discovered it was nothing more than a Nes powering it, not some cutting edge coin-op board.I never saw anyone showing much interest in them, they just seemed to turn up in various bars and sat untouched.

Playchoice was not the same thing as the .vs arcade cabs. The games were the same, but with the .vs cabs it was a normal arcade game experience, put in a quarter and play as long as you can. The .vs cabs were also dedicated units, one game a piece. The playchoice was the NES game select thing on a timer.

I like the SMS, but it wasn't exposed at the time, we're talking 1985. Was the SMS even available in the US in 1985? Yes, all those great Sega arcade games were all over the place here, like Thunderblade, Space Harrier and Afterburner, but honestly it wasn't until the Genesis that Sega and all it's arcade hits became readily available.

Yep, in that mid-'80s period when Sega were releasing smash hit game after smash hit game into the arcades the company was riding very high in many a gamers' appreciation here.

That one could soon after buy home console conversions of those iconic arcade coin-ops that were not only made by Sega themselves but could be played on Sega hardware too was a very attractive proposition at the time.

Small wonder that the NES was crushed as a consequence. Arcade coin-op games were the gold standard for so many gamers of that generation here and with what Sega offered it was no surprise that NES was left gathering dust in Boots.

As RT commented, it also cannot be overstated just how huge a deal Sonic The Hedgehog was in Europe back then. The Sonic mascot was everywhere and helped to sell many SMS consoles for a great deal of time after even the smash hit Mega Drive arrived.

Such was the reach of Sonic as a marketing phenomenon back then that Sega not only sponsered the then dominant Wiliams F1 team...



... they even sponsored the European F1 GP of 1993 that was staged at Donington Park. The race was officially branded as the FIA Formula One World Championship Sega European Grand Prix!







From the mid-'80 through to the Mega Drive's success in the '90s Sega and Sonic were king in Europe. Like RT says though, when reading some of today's games industry media sources one could be forgiven for thinking history was altogether different than it actually was were we to believe the nonsense being pedalled. 

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Guess with something like the Gamemate, cards would have been ideal, cheap, your not looking at epic sized games etc.On systems like the Lynx though, how 'big' did the cart sizes go? seem to recal some issues concerning Lynx Eye Of The Beholder (which never came out, did it?) needing a big cart.

Did technology increases allow for 'bigger' cards without incurring bigger production costs in later years?.

The design of the Lynx cards was superb they could go up to 8 megabits (512k) without bankswitching. The issue with Eye Of The Beholder was that it required expensive battery back-up which also made the cards more bulky and stopped you from shutting the door on the Lynx 1 (like most homebrews on PCBs). EOTB was released several years ago by a community member in limited numbers with much more relaible flash memory replacing the battery back-up.

Quote from: "64bitRuss"Playchoice was not the same thing as the .vs arcade cabs. The games were the same, but with the .vs cabs it was a normal arcade game experience, put in a quarter and play as long as you can. The .vs cabs were also dedicated units, one game a piece. The playchoice was the NES game select thing on a timer.

I like the SMS, but it wasn't exposed at the time, we're talking 1985. Was the SMS even available in the US in 1985? Yes, all those great Sega arcade games were all over the place here, like Thunderblade, Space Harrier and Afterburner, but honestly it wasn't until the Genesis that Sega and all it's arcade hits became readily available.

My mistake, was probably because they had the same games and used the same hardware that I got confused. They were still just a NES in an arcade cab and the games looked extremely poor next to the arcade games of the time in my opinion.

Both the NES and the Master System were released in the US in 1986, the second NES test market was in 1985 (after a failed one in 1984) the official US countrywide release was the year after.

Quote from: "64bitRuss"Playchoice was not the same thing as the .vs arcade cabs. The games were the same, but with the .vs cabs it was a normal arcade game experience, put in a quarter and play as long as you can. The .vs cabs were also dedicated units, one game a piece. The playchoice was the NES game select thing on a timer.

I like the SMS, but it wasn't exposed at the time, we're talking 1985. Was the SMS even available in the US in 1985? Yes, all those great Sega arcade games were all over the place here, like Thunderblade, Space Harrier and Afterburner, but honestly it wasn't until the Genesis that Sega and all it's arcade hits became readily available.

You also have to bear in mind that by time Nes 'landed' over here, we'd already had arcade conversions of Capcom, Sega etc coin-op's as they were licensed out to likes of U.S Gold, Activision etc and they were retailing at time of launch for around £10 and by Nes arrivial on budget labels for around £2.99.There was no way people were going to pay price of Nes carts for another 8 Bit version of an arcade conversion, espically when St/Amiga versions were doing the rounds at around £25. (kept the prices simple here, prices ranged depending on tape/disk/format at various times).

Nes games were too little, too late and far too expensive.

Quote from: "64bitRuss"Playchoice was not the same thing as the .vs arcade cabs. The games were the same, but with the .vs cabs it was a normal arcade game experience, put in a quarter and play as long as you can. The .vs cabs were also dedicated units, one game a piece. The playchoice was the NES game select thing on a timer.

I like the SMS, but it wasn't exposed at the time, we're talking 1985. Was the SMS even available in the US in 1985? Yes, all those great Sega arcade games were all over the place here, like Thunderblade, Space Harrier and Afterburner, but honestly it wasn't until the Genesis that Sega and all it's arcade hits became readily available.

I can recal reading in various UK console/multi-format magazines when they were giving sheer volume of pages to coverage of the latest US trade show's that the Ms was 'pretty much dead over there' and for MS owners..'sorry, stuff all'.It became clear the Nes was by far the dominant force over there (something back then i could never grasp), but it oddly worked out in Sega's favour as it let them stamp home the 16-Bit factor of the Genesis at such shows, whilst in Europe, secure European software support for the Ms which was doing bloody well thank you.

DC has put up outstanding pictures, which describe far better than any ramblings i could, just how big Sonic was over here.

You should have seen UK stores on Sonic 2 release day, Sega could do no wrong.A few places like C4 Digitiser and Gamesmaster magazine scored the game around 65% but it was like holding back the tides with your little finger....Sega were huge once Sonic hit.

Looks like the SMS has a good following!  It is really interesting how the NES became successful in the US and the SMS was "it" in Europe.  I guess the marketplace was in a different place in each side of the world and that led to this difference. 

Quote from: "TrekMD"Looks like the SMS has a good following!  It is really interesting how the NES became successful in the US and the SMS was "it" in Europe.  I guess the marketplace was in a different place in each side of the world and that led to this difference.

Yes it is an interesting story I think. I would actually think a book could probably be written about how the two companies came to dominate two completely different continents. I would like to know the intricacies of how this happened. Maybe the rental market played a role in the US, as I recall NEVER seeing a SMS game for rent at any video store, but I live in middle America, not in a metropolis. How did it come to be that mom and pop video stores chose the NES to rent games? It was almost like the Master System didn't exist except in what I saw in video game publications like EGM and Gamepro.

Quote from: "TrekMD"Looks like the SMS has a good following!  It is really interesting how the NES became successful in the US and the SMS was "it" in Europe.  I guess the marketplace was in a different place in each side of the world and that led to this difference.

History here wasn't quite like that either, i.e. it wasn't so much a case of the SMS being 'it'. The SMS was 'it' relative to the NES but...

... 8-bit consoles full stop were largely secondary to the dominance of the 8-bit home computers whereby the ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 were the two most dominant systems. Then in the late '80s and into the very early '90s a good number of those wishing to move on to a new system traded up to either an Atari ST or Commodore Amiga.

Consoles only really took hold of the videogaming landscape with the advent of the Mega Drive which was launched in Europe in 1990 - approximately two years later than in Japan and one year later than in North America.

Simply put, the SMS sold well here (and utterly crushed the NES) but the 8-bit and then the 16-bit computers were still the majority choice. The shift away from home computers to consoles really kicked in once the Mega Drive and Sonic The Hedgehog arrived. I'm not ignoring the likelihood that a proportion of folk moved from their ST or Amiga to PC either because PC gaming of course gained in popularity as of '93 following the arrival of Doom.

Quote from: "64bitRuss"

Quote from: "TrekMD"Looks like the SMS has a good following!  It is really interesting how the NES became successful in the US and the SMS was "it" in Europe.  I guess the marketplace was in a different place in each side of the world and that led to this difference.

Yes it is an interesting story I think. I would actually think a book could probably be written about how the two companies came to dominate two completely different continents. I would like to know the intricacies of how this happened. Maybe the rental market played a role in the US, as I recall NEVER seeing a SMS game for rent at any video store, but I live in middle America, not in a metropolis. How did it come to be that mom and pop video stores chose the NES to rent games? It was almost like the Master System didn't exist except in what I saw in video game publications like EGM and Gamepro.

I had the exact same experience growing up in a small town in Canada. I can only remember one store that sold the SMS and it was a hardware store. Never saw it for rent anywhere or had any friends  who owned one. Maybe it was different in big cities but for me I barely knew it existed.

Quote from: "Shadowrunner"

Quote from: "64bitRuss"

Quote from: "TrekMD"Looks like the SMS has a good following!  It is really interesting how the NES became successful in the US and the SMS was "it" in Europe.  I guess the marketplace was in a different place in each side of the world and that led to this difference.

Yes it is an interesting story I think. I would actually think a book could probably be written about how the two companies came to dominate two completely different continents. I would like to know the intricacies of how this happened. Maybe the rental market played a role in the US, as I recall NEVER seeing a SMS game for rent at any video store, but I live in middle America, not in a metropolis. How did it come to be that mom and pop video stores chose the NES to rent games? It was almost like the Master System didn't exist except in what I saw in video game publications like EGM and Gamepro.

I had the exact same experience growing up in a small town in Canada. I can only remember one store that sold the SMS and it was a hardware store. Never saw it for rent anywhere or had any friends  who owned one. Maybe it was different in big cities but for me I barely knew it existed.

I agree! Video game rentals were the bomb. Never remember any SMS games being rented. As mentioned in another thread, toy giant Tonka handled the release of the Master System for a while. Sega learned with the 16-bit to handle releases themselves.

Also seems in U.S., that we have a phenomenon called keeping up with the Jones syndrome. We want what the Jones family has, at the time to keep up with your neighbors, you had to own a Nintendo Entertainment System. The phenom occurred with the Playstation and Playstation II as well.

My favorites on the SMS are Choplifter, Rampage and Safari Hunt.

I would have never associated Tonka with video games.  Mabye that also had a negative impact on SMS sales in the US.  They company just didn't know how to sell the system.

TGM gave official prices of MS and Nes systems as follows prior to their UK release:

Nes (under Mattel):

£100 for basic package (Nes, 2 controllers and Super Mario Bros).Deluxe version £150 (had Zapper ROB, Duck Hunt+Gyromite).

Zaapper on it's own £19.99 with ROB costing £49.99

Games to range from £20 with 'upper limit' of £35.


Master System (which was originally to have been distributed in UK by Ariolasoft, but deal fell through), under Mastertonic:

£100 got you the console+2 controllers, Light Phaser was £44.95, and 3D Glasses at £49.95

Games:

64K cards £14.95
One Meg cartridges £19.95 2 Meg carts at £24.95

article said:

'...The sega, with it's range of more up-to-date arcade conversions, such as Space harrier and Outrun, is arguably instantly more impressive than the Nintendo'

So just thought i'd post these 2 comparisons, plus the 65XE in the 5200 thread, to give US readers an idea of the prices and approaches Sega, Atari and Nintendo played when entering the 8 Bit console scene inUK in 1987.

Found an old Special Reserve advert (a superb UK mail order company) highlights price differences between NES and MS (early '92)

Sega Master System II with Alex Kidd+Special Reserve membership £59.99

As above but with Light Phaser and Operation Wolf £89.99.


Most expensive MS games listed retailing at £28.99 (Outrun Europa).


N.E.S Action Set (Nes, zapper, 2 pads, Super Mario Bros+duck Hunt) plus S.R membership, free joypad extender cable.

Most expensive games £49.99!!!! (Gremlins 2, Star Wars, Turtles 2 etc) with Maniac Mansion clocking in at whopping £54.99

And these prices are at discounted rates! who on earth was going to pay £50+ for an 8 Bit console game, when on same pages you had the Mega Drive with it's most expensive games being £47.99 (Phantasy star 2) and the Atari Lynx with it's most expensive game being £27.99 (Ult.Chess Challenge).

And people overseas wonder why Nes did'nt take off over here....

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"... And people overseas wonder why Nes did'nt take off over here....

Indeed. Some great and entirely useful information there, RT. You mentioning Special Reserve sure pricked my nostalgia gland there!

Another favourite chestnut I've seen claimed by deluded Nintendo fanboys to 'explain' why their beloved NES bombed in the UK was that it was the fault of the console's UK distributor, Mattel. To elaborate,

* said idiotic fanboys blame Mattel while being conveniently blind to the fact that it was Nintendo who chose Mattel for the job - the buck stops with Nintendo

* said idiotic fanboys seek to make themselves appear so smart by suggesting that Mattel should have stuck to what they had experience in - selling Barbie dolls. Haha, funny, but factually incorrect of course. Said fools evidently don't know of the...



... and that through Mattel's M Network division the company had also released a number of game cartridges for the Atari 2600 console.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_Network (//http)

Oh, and a great number of dedicated handeld consoles too.

Source: http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Mattel/index.html (//http)

So, the abject failure of the NES in the UK cannot be blamed entirely on Mattel. Especially not when the console tanked in pretty much every other European country too... where, I might add, it was distributed by other companies.

Glad you liked mention of Special Reserve.Used them as not only were they a discount retailer (you paid for you membership and got better than high street prices), but they stocked pretty much all the current console hardware back then, so there prices seemed very good means to highlight vast differences in pricing between formats.they along with Silica shop were 2 of the most widely used firms i know of from that era.

Nintendo could have handled the UK Nes themselves 1st time around, but as you say, decided to give it to Mattel and given the examples you've used, it proves once and for all that Mattel were not inexperinced in dealing with consumer electronics like games consoles. bottom line is when talking of Nes and UK, people just did'nt want to be paying those game prices for then very dated 8 Bit hardware, when you had the likes of the MD and Lynx alone offering 16 Bit (yes, know Lynx was a hybrid, but it out powered the Nes by a long shot!) gaming.

As i said in other post, Mastertronic were'nt seg'a 1st choice to handle MS in UK, deal fell through, paving way for Mastertonic, but the blame for Nes failure in UK lies squarely with Nintendo.

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"As i said in other post, Mastertronic were'nt seg'a 1st choice to handle MS in UK, deal fell through, paving way for Mastertonic, but the blame for Nes failure in UK lies squarely with Nintendo.

Indeed. As you stated, Sega's first choice for UK distributor of the Master System was Ariolasoft. That was evidently a smart choice because Ariolasoft were chosen by Sega to distribute the console in Germany, iirc, and made a success of it too. Sega's next choice, Mastertronic, worked out wonderfully well as we all know.

My personal opinion is that too much is made out of who did or did not distribute the SMS and NES and how competent or otherwise they were at doing so. Bottom line is that Sega ultimately offered a product in the SMS that was far more in tune with European sensibilities than what Nintendo were offering.

OutRun, After Burner, Space Harrier, Zillion, R-Type, Shinobi, Alex Kidd franchise, Wonderboy franchise, Sonic The Hedgehog franchise, etc were far more in tune with what the typical Brit wanted than Mario, flickering sprites and ROB the robot were! 

That was the impression the Games Machine article gave:If potential buyer looked at the MS offering conversions of Outrun, Afterburner, Space Harrier etc, compared to what the Nes was offering, the MS looked lot more attractive based on inital impressions (Know Nes games had the depth, but that's something buyer discovered over time).

If your trying to flog an 8 Bit machine in a country at a time it's looking towards the 16 Bit era, you need to impress and be seen as offering good VFM, looks like Nes did'nt do either to so many, where as MS did.It's not Mattels fault product was wrong thing, wrong time over here.

The Master System sure had some decent games.

Okay, maybe the card games were stretching things, but they looked cool!

Were there ever any high quality third-party gamepad controllers available for the Master System?

Only asking because I wasn't keen on the mushy-feeling d-pad of the stock controller and didn't much rate the Sega pad that had something resembling a car gearstick for a joystick.

EDIT: The latter being this 'thing' -

Always wanted one. It does look uncomfortable.

Quote from: "onthinice"Always wanted one. It does look uncomfortable.

I only used the Control Stick once but I remember it feeling rather unwieldy. The stick, with its bulbous top part that one held (ooer, missus!), made it too top-heavy that the base kept moving about on the surface it was resting on and it was too cumbersome to hold the base in one's other hand. All in all, an egonomic disaster, for my hands at least.

Thanks for the info, DreamcastRIP! Still curious, but I'm probably better off to have never owned one.

Quote from: "onthinice"Thanks for the info, DreamcastRIP! Still curious, but I'm probably better off to have never owned one.

I was keen to stress that was only my experience of the controller's egonomics. Maybe others who've used the controller would be of the same view, maybe some others would have found it comfortable to use. Just like some people hate using controllers such as the stock Jaguar, Dreamcast, N64, NES and original Xbox controllers whereas others find them to be fine.

It is funny how control pads were always on the left and buttons on the right. Sega totally changed that control stick. Used to play the arcade version of Donkey Kong with my hands crossed. Right hand on the stick and left arm my under my right arm to press the buttons with my left hand. People used to laugh  :o. Mostly laugh. Maybe the Sega Control Stick would not be so bad.

I understand about controllers. I am a sucker for different game controllers, always looking for the best one for each system.

Cheetah did a few MS Joysticks i know of, you had 'The Bug' a wierd looking affair, a handheld palm top, it's 'eyes' were the A+B buttons, it had a microswitched stick, autofire etc.Then there was the '125 Sega'  usual Quickshot style affair:trigger, thumb and base buttons, 4 suckers on base etc.

Or there was the beeshu Zoomer, looked like an aircraft yoke....  but was very spongy and not responsive  or the Konix speed king.

If you were after the pad style controller: Competition Pro Professional which had a better D-Pad than the offical Sega controller, plus individual turbo fire for 2 buttons, best though seemed to be the SG Commander by hori.


Some say MD controllers also worked on some, but not all MS games.

Quickshot did a whole range of controllers for the Master System:

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Of the gamepads mentioned that Competition Pro model sounds promising. If it's as good as the one I bought as an alternative to using the godawful stock controller for my Amiga CD32...



... then it'll be a more than adequate alternative to using the stock SMS pad.

Competition Pro released these controllers for the SMS:

Quote from: "The Laird"Competition Pro released these controllers for the SMS:

The Competion Pro Star, of which an SMS variant seems to be pictured, was my favourite ever joystick back in the day. Very cool that an SMS version was released... albeit I'd prefer to use a joypad to play most SMS games.

Quote

Looks cheap and nasty... albeit probably still superior to the godawful stock SMS, NES, Amiga CD32 and Amstrad GX4000 pads.

Quote

Now we're talking. 

Were all the Competition Pro controllers the same?  Looks like they only changed colors and plug.  The one for the SMS looks like the one for the 5200 just in different colors.

Quote from: "TrekMD"Were all the Competition Pro controllers the same?  Looks like they only changed colors and plug.  The one for the SMS looks like the one for the 5200 just in different colors.

Look at the differences between the pictures posted of the CP Amiga CD32 pad and the CP SMS pad and you'll note the differences run to far more than a change of colour scheme and connector plug.

Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"

Quote from: "TrekMD"Were all the Competition Pro controllers the same?  Looks like they only changed colors and plug.  The one for the SMS looks like the one for the 5200 just in different colors.

Look at the differences between the pictures posted of the CP Amiga CD32 pad and the CP SMS pad and you'll note the differences run to far more than a change of colour scheme and connector plug.

Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I was referring to the joysticks, not the pads.

Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"

 

Just found this . . . . . .

SEGA Master System commercial compilation HD (//http)

Gotta love those old commercials!

With all the talk of the NES and Master System on here recently I thought I would bump this with a review of the Master System from well known American You Tube channel Game Sack:

Game Sack - The Sega Master System (//http)

And when looking for a UK based review of the SMS I found this video, which a perfect example of the bullshit revisionist history we face every day now. This guy clearly hasn't got a clue about the real story behind this machine and talks about how it wasn't as successful over here as the NES 

Sega Master System Review (//http)

Quote from: "The Laird"And when looking for a UK based review of the SMS I found this video, which a perfect example of the bullshit revisionist history we face every day now. This guy clearly hasn't got a clue about the real story behind this machine and talks about how it wasn't as successful over here as the NES 

Sega Master System Review (//http)

Words almost fail me. Listening to the way that self-confessed Nintendard referred to the console by constantly comparing it to the NES was like a video-based equivalent of reading such articles in Retro Gamer magazine where self-confessed Nintendo fanboys have done the same thing.

What is it about Nintendo fanboys that stops them from being able to review non-Nintendo products on their own merits? The ignorant bloke in that Youtube video and the likes of the Adam Buchanan penned articles in Retro Gamer magazine both constantly compare the product in question to their beloved Nintendo's products. Pitiful and more than a little embarrassing.

This person described Safari Hunt on the SMS as being "an inferior version of the NES Duck Hunt". He's evidently not aware that Duck Hunt on the NES was a rip-off of an arcade coin-op by Atari named Qwak! that was released way back in 1974 a full decade prior to Famicom's Duck Hunt. Ignorance is bliss...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwak (//http)!

Er....um.... actually.... it is similar but not exact. It also uses a second processor. Also, you
can not use NES carts in a PC10 machine, even with a card to cart adapter...the games are
slightly different in some ways. I'm sure Nintendo planned it that way to insure arcade houses
did not simply try to save money by popping in NES carts instead of buying the cards from
Nintendo.

I have a Playchoice 10 machine I restored in my garage. For it's time, it really was a lame
attempt by Nintendo....not unlike most attempts by Nintendo, in my opinion. Technically
by this time, it was seriously out classed by leaps.

Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"What is it about Nintendo fanboys that stops them from being able to review non-Nintendo products on their own merits?

Nintendo fanboys pretty much answers that question.

Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"Ignorance is bliss...

Could have easily been wrote as 'Nintendo fanboyism is  bliss...'

Well, I enjoyed watching the first review.  It was well done and it really covered the SMS well along with a good set of its games.  The second review was painful to watch.  The constant comparison to the NES was not necessary and did not really contribute anything constructive to the review.  I actually learned something about the SMS from the first video. 

Ninty fanboyism is certainly beyond the level of reason. I remember looking at the Dreamcast in a store
one day next to a PS2, saying how I thought it was superior in everyway and of course two little Nintendards
that looked pretty much like this.... ...were trying to convince me that the GameCube was superior. I
found it very hard to restrain laughter while explaining to them the facts of life concerning the inferiority
of their precious Lame Cube's shortcomings. I was expecting them to start crying at any moment. Of course
some muscle head was there trying to convince me with his eyebrow muscles on how that the DC was inferior to
the PS2 because of the controllers. More laughter was greatly suppressed as I told him that such a feature is a
matter of opinion and did not negate the fact that graphically the DC was easily the better of the two...for which
he huffed out of the store angrily....thankfully as he was quite large and extremely opinionated.

There is now a Master System review guide (//http) on RVG 

28 games have already been added with more to come this week!

Sega also released a Master System II, a more compact console that was more economical.  Unfortunately, it was not compatible with card games.  Here's a review of that specific console...

[align=center:2aj6azr9]Sega Master System II Review (//http)[/align:2aj6azr9]

I like the smaller look of the Master System II. Looks more professional then the first Master System. A Side by side comparison with the Nintendo Entertainment System, going purely on appearance, would make me believe the Master System is for serious gamers.

I like the smaller System II as well but I don't like that it does not have the ability to play card games.  That's a limitation for it, though I don't know how much of an impact that has on the game library a person could own.  Are there many games on cards?

Quote from: "TrekMD"I like the smaller System II as well but I don't like that it does not have the ability to play card games.  That's a limitation for it, though I don't know how much of an impact that has on the game library a person could own.  Are there many games on cards?

There are just 14 - http://segaretro.org/Sega_Card (//http)

But the card slot is also used to plug in the 3D glasses so you can't use them or the games made for them either.

Another advantage of the SMS 1 is RGB output, SMS 2 is RF only.

I owned the original MS and thought the MS2 looked awful! It was basically redesigned for the younger generation and squeeze the last few sales out of an ageing console, at the time the originalMS was very futuristic along with its gun and 3d glasses,,the nes and robot were just a toy in comparison.

The original console isn't huge, so size isn't much of a concern, I suppose.  I don't have an SMS but I'd get the original console over the System II because of the card games.

The Power Base converter is another alternative.

Quote from: "onthinice"The Power Base converter is another alternative.

Exactly!  Then you get the best of both worlds,  Master System and Mega Drive!

OK SMS owners, check this out.  What do you think of these Top 10 Games selected?

[align=center:gcwxh00j]TOP 10 SEGA MASTER SYSTEM GAMES (//http)[/align:gcwxh00j]

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "onthinice"The Power Base converter is another alternative.

Exactly!  Then you get the best of both worlds,  Master System and Mega Drive!

I've a Master Gear Converter so to play SMS games on my Game Gear.

That doesn't seem like a good pick of top ten games in that video above. When I had my MS, I loved Psycho Fox, Spellcaster, Wonder Boy in Monsterland and Time Soldiers. Almost all those games in that video are early, generic games other than Sonic which looks pretty spiffy.

OK, so Russ doesn't agree with the selection.  Anyone else?  Anyone wants to list their top 10 for the SMS? I just got a Genesis (waiting for it to actually arrive) and I can SMS games on it, so I'm looking to see what folks like. 

Quote from: "TrekMD"OK, so Russ doesn't agree with the selection.  Anyone else?  Anyone wants to list their top 10 for the SMS? I just got a Genesis (waiting for it to actually arrive) and I can SMS games on it, so I'm looking to see what folks like.  :4:)

You might also want to get the Disney and Alex Kidd games if you like platformers.

Cool.  I guess I'll have to hunt for Digger Chan.  Was that homebrew released as a cart or just available for download?

Edit:  Found it: http://www.diggerchan.co.uk/ (//http)  It won't play on the Genesis, unfortunately.

OK, so that video with 10 didn't quite work.  How about this one with 20 that "defined the SMS?"

[align=center:36hn3gqn]20 Games That Defined the Sega Master System (//http)[/align:36hn3gqn]

Choplifter
Rampage
Gangster Town - Light gun game
Hang-On/Safari Hunt - Light gun game
California Games
Outrun

Games I would like to own
Alf - mainly for nostalgia
Spider-Man - supposed to have a hidden Pac-Man clone in the game


The Sega Master System light gun is far superior to the Nintendo. Probably not worth tracking down unless you find a working one cheap. Still, a neat accessory.

[align=center:2zlxg4un]100 Master System Games (//http)[/align:2zlxg4un]

Cool video!  That's quite the collection of games!  I wish they had added the names of the games.  I recognize many of the titles but not all of them.

I have noticed the Sega Master System card games have been getting very collectable and some of them are going for quite high prices now, here is a complete list of all the ones released for those interested (including Japanese only releases):

Comical Machine Gun Joe (1986)
F-16 Fighting Falcon (1985)
Ghost House (1986)
Great Baseball (1985)
Great Soccer (1985)
Hang On (1985)
My Hero (1986)
Pit Pot (1985)
Satellite 7 (1985)
Spy vs Spy (1986)
Super Tennis (1986)
Teddy Boy (1985)
TransBot (1985)
Woody Pop (1987)

I thought the top 10 list was shit tbh. Here's mine..

1. Phantasy star
2. Y's
3. Zillion
4. Enduro racer
5. California games
6. Impossible mission
7. Gauntlet
8. R-type
9. Golvellius
10. Space harrier.

Good list Crusto, I recently picked up both Space Harrier and Enduro Racer (on card!) and uploaded reviews for them on here.

The folks from RetroCollect have posted an article about the Video Game Wars and how they circled around none other than the NES and the SMS.  Interesting read.  Check it out:  The Console That Started A Video Game War (//http).

Quote from: "TrekMD"The folks from RetroCollect have posted an article about the Video Game Wars and how they circled around none other than the NES and the SMS.  Interesting read.  Check it out:  The Console That Started A Video Game War (//http).

Yeah I read that a couple of days ago, there are a few minor factual errors but certainly better than some of the stuff that has come from them before.

That article was pretty good and for once spent some time talking about the MS popularity in Europe. Something really bugged me about the article though, something I did not like.

At first I did not know what it was until I read it again. It was this constant talk of the Nes Club, talking as if there was some sort of secret club that the author hated and deserved to be overthrown or something. I know retro games are a passionate thing for people and everyone has personal opinions but that bugged the shit out of me in that article.

Quote from: "SnakeEyes"That article was pretty good and for once spent some time talking about the MS popularity in Europe. Something really bugged me about the article though, something I did not like.

At first I did not know what it was until I read it again. It was this constant talk of the Nes Club, talking as if there was some sort of secret club that the author hated and deserved to be overthrown or something. I know retro games are a passionate thing for people and everyone has personal opinions but that bugged the shit out of me in that article.

Exactly the same problem I had with it, you saying that has just jogged my memory!

The other thing I didn't like was how made out that the NES was doing well and then the SMS came along and spoiled the party when they arrived at almost exactly the same time.

It also said the 7800 was a dismal failure, which just wasn't the case, it was the no. 2 console in the US outselling the SMS by 2:1 and sold fairly well in the UK too.

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "SnakeEyes"That article was pretty good and for once spent some time talking about the MS popularity in Europe. Something really bugged me about the article though, something I did not like.

At first I did not know what it was until I read it again. It was this constant talk of the Nes Club, talking as if there was some sort of secret club that the author hated and deserved to be overthrown or something. I know retro games are a passionate thing for people and everyone has personal opinions but that bugged the shit out of me in that article.

Exactly the same problem I had with it, you saying that has just jogged my memory!

The other thing I didn't like was how made out that the NES was doing well and then the SMS came along and spoiled the party when they arrived at almost exactly the same time.

It also said the 7800 was a dismal failure, which just wasn't the case, it was the no. 2 console in the US outselling the SMS by 2:1 and sold fairly well in the UK too.

Yeah, I am not a huge atari fan but it does bug me how they are dismissed in articles like this, almost as if the author has to grudgingly mention them and tries to get it out of the way as quick as possible so he can get on with talking about the NES and MS. Atari was a big part of the scene, do it properly and look at all 3.

Unfortunately, this type of bias is very common in many of these types of articles.  From the tone of the article it's almost as if an NES fanboy wrote the story.  Still, it is an interesting read despite its faults. 

Quote from: "TrekMD"Unfortunately, this type of bias is very common in many of these types of articles.  From the tone of the article it's almost as if an NES fanboy wrote the story.  Still, it is an interesting read despite its faults.

Are you kidding me, you need to reread it, if anything he was an MS fanboy. did you not see the contempt he was talking about Nes owners. calling them the nes club in a pretty disparaging way.

I really cant see how you missed that.

I didn't notice any bias towards either side really to be honest. It was well written but it seemed that the writer, while aware of a lot that went on, was lacking many of the real facts. Was almost like he was writing his opinion on what happened rather than what actually happened.

But then something special happened, something not foreseen by the NES club. A new console entered the western gaming industry, the Sega Master System. Like an 8-bit army of superior brightly lit sprites with its super high tech over the top unnecessary peripherals, the black and red 8-bit beast from the east threatened the very existence of the NES club and threatened to cancel out the singular dominance console market of the west. It was here, this is what every NES club member had feared & what every industry journalist and analyst wanted

Without warning, a whole nine months after the NES had been reincarnated by Nintendo of America from the ashes of the Famicom in Japan, the Sega Master System struck, bringing with it a host of fresh titles and extras that no one should be with out

was the pinnacle of what the 1980's 'electronics machine' should look like. Black, narrow, sleek and light with random white arrows pointing to the red over black interface to the centre of the machin

The consoles sleek and imaginative design, superb visuals and sound

In 1987, the Master System ploughed out title after title. From After Burner to Alien Syndrome, Sega had left a scorching mark on the console war that left the NES barley able to keep up



While he did talk about both computers pretty fairly, when it came to personal descriptions he enthused about the MS in a way he most certainly did not about the NES. Nothing wrong with being a fan of one or the other TBH, I was just surprised that someone would actually think he was a NES fanboy.

To be clear, I didn't say he WAS a NES fanboy.  You must have missed the word "almost" in there which I used because someone could interpret the writing as coming from a fanboy.  The article is an interesting read regardless and that is why I posted it. Whether he is a fanboy of any system or not doesn't matter.

[align=center:295x21gs]Some classic Master System adverts here!!!!

Thunder Blade Sega Master TV Commercial Sega Master System medium (//http)

SEGA Master System 1987 Commercial medium (//http)

Sega Master System Video Game Console TV Game Commercial Retro Gaming 1986 hd720 (//http)

Sega Master System Toys R Us TV Commercial Sega Master System medium (//http)

SEGA Scope 3D commercial medium (//http)[/align:295x21gs]

Nice set of ads.  I can see, though, they really did a much better job with the Genesis ads. 

A very early advert for the Master System I just found:

[align=center:3fzrkfdz]Master System Makeover - Super Mario Land 2 (//http)[/align:3fzrkfdz]

One word:  AWESOME!

Really looks good! Great commercials and print ads.

[align=center:3hqreu7y][/align:3hqreu7y]

The Control Stick looks interesting.  That big thing must have had some special purpose, no?

Quote from: "TrekMD"The Control Stick looks interesting.  That big thing must have had some special purpose, no?

It can be turned for right or left handed play, that's about it!

All that big square thing for just that?! 

[align=center:1vm7y420]Somebody has just converted the Game Gear version of Bust A Move over to the Sega Master System:

Puzzle Bobble Master System 60Hz Sega (//http)[/align:1vm7y420]

[align=center:rneuueeh]Master of Darkness (Sega Master System) - Leftover Culture Review (//http)

Shadow Dancer (Sega Master System) - Leftover Culture Review (//http)[/align:rneuueeh]

Master of Darkness looks like a very good game.  I don't see a version of the game in the Genesis/Mega Drive library (at least, not by the same name). 

Quote from: "TrekMD"Master of Darkness looks like a very good game.  I don't see a version of the game in the Genesis/Mega Drive library (at least, not by the same name).

Nope, it only came out on the Master System and Game Gear. It is an excellent game, I have actually reviewed the Game Gear version on here - http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/index.php?page=GGlmn (//http)

[align=center:ly4yh593]I always fancied picking up this game as it looks pretty cool.

Ghost House - Sega Master System (//http)[/align:ly4yh593]

Just thought I would mention the Zilion games, they were very underrated and have the two best soundtracks on the Master System IMHO.  Master System Longplay [015] Zillion (//http) Master System Longplay [020] Zillion II - The Tri Formation (FM) (//http)

Those look some some cool games to check out. 

Amazing console although back in the day I had massive pangs for not getting a NES that xmas. Instead I received an SMS with Enduro Racer:

Enduro Racer - Sega Master System (//http)

Edit. God I filmed this 5 years ago!!! Where does the time go  watching my own vid again I still get the muscle memory pangs. I must have played this to death as a kid.

Quote from: "Lorfarius"Edit. God I filmed this 5 years ago!!! Where does the time go 

It flies, whether you are fun having fun or not!

I now want to buy a Master System again. I should just delete my own Youtube account!

Quote from: "Lorfarius"I now want to buy a Master System again. I should just delete my own Youtube account!

 

I have Enduro Racer, I really like the SMS version even if it is nothing like the arcade game.

Zillion 1 & 2 are great games, up there with the best on the system. I think they are based on some anime series IIRC

I have Enduro Racer as well!  It is a fun game.

[align=center:1cw5qc4q]This is another very under rated game that although appearing on the 8-bit computers of the time didn't get any other console ports that I know of:

Rastan - Sega Master System (//http)[/align:1cw5qc4q]

That looks like a really good game!

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "Lorfarius"I now want to buy a Master System again. I should just delete my own Youtube account!

 

I have Enduro Racer, I really like the SMS version even if it is nothing like the arcade game.

Zillion 1 & 2 are great games, up there with the best on the system. I think they are based on some anime series IIRC

If you're into 1980's anime, it's not a bad show either.  Also, little known fact, the Master System's Light Phaser was based on the gun from the series. 

QuoteAn original video animation (OVA) movie titled Zillion: Burning Night has also been released after the success of the TV series. It also left a legacy of becoming the first anime to inspire a video game hardware, namely Sega Master System's Light Phaser.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zillion_%28anime%29 (//http) 

That was what I was remembering, thanks for that! 

That's a nice looking gun!

[align=center:1ijc3bzs]Classic Game Room HD - SEGA LIGHT PHASER for Master System (//http)[/align:1ijc3bzs]

My phasers don't look like that. 

Quote from: "TrekMD"My phasers don't look like that. 

I looked into this a bit more, and found some interesting information:
 

QuoteA toy gun called Zillion that looks just like the Sega Master System Light Phaser, that just doesn�t make any sense does it?. Well let�s start from the very beginning and try to clear up any confusion.

Back in the early 1980�s Sega created a Laser tag game which they decided to give a space age futuristic name - Zillion. The toy became very popular with kids running around shooting each other all over Japan.

From this success an Anime series and Manga comic books were born, and to make the whole thing more interesting, a whole new fictional world was created around these guns. The plot focuses on a heroic team called the White Knights who use three mysterious alien built Zillion guns to defend themselves against another species of alien invaders. The series even featured Opa-Opa from the Fantasy Zone games as a character. At some point the design of the gun changed in the Anime series so it no longer resembled the Master System phaser, and the toy was also changed to this new design. After doing lots of investigating I couldn�t find out a definitive reason for this. One explanation I have found is that Sega withdrew support/funding from the TV series, but since Sega owned the Zillion name, this doesn�t make any sense. I believe they changed the design to avoid any confusion with the Master System Phaser, especially as the Zillion Anime was to be shown in the US where there actually were Master System light phaser games available. Its also a possibility that the guns shape was changed in the anime as part of a deliberate storyline, but as I haven't been able to find the episodes to watch that is pure conjecture.

  http://www.smstributes.co.uk/view_article.asp?articleid=25 (//http)

Cool info, thanks. 

[align=center:277h2vz4]Kung Fu Kid - Sega Master System (//http)[/align:277h2vz4]

[align=center:imovswmw]290 Sega Master System Box Art Scans (//http)[/align:imovswmw]

That video really reminds me just how bad a lot of the SMS art is! 

Quote from: "The Laird"That video really reminds me just how bad a lot of the SMS art is!  :21:

I thought I would mention, I rediscovered the game Dragon Crystal for the Master System.  I only had it on the Game Gear back in the day, as it never saw U.S. release for the Master System that I know of.  Well, I finally picked up an import copy, and remembered how much I liked it.  It's a hard game to describe, a combo of RPG and puzzle elements, definitely an underrated title for the console.  Sega Master System - Dragon Crystal (//http)

I had an MS as a kid after a ZX Spectrum +2 so the oomph in graphics was mind blowing.  The one game that really sticks in my mind (but seems terrible now) is Alex Kid in High Tec World.  I played that thing to death mainly because I couldn't afford more than a few games over its life.  I can remember being able to speed run that thing and used to complete it on a monthly basis. Kids are crazy or maybe it was just me? 

Quote from: "Ben"I thought I would mention, I rediscovered the game Dragon Crystal for the Master System.  I only had it on the Game Gear back in the day, as it never saw U.S. release for the Master System that I know of.  Well, I finally picked up an import copy, and remembered how much I liked it.  It's a hard game to describe, a combo of RPG and puzzle elements, definitely an underrated title for the console.  Sega Master System - Dragon Crystal (//http)

It's a "Rogue-like" to the bone.  Somehow the Japanese keep ancient gaming genres alive better than us!

Quote from: "theloon"

Quote from: "Ben"I thought I would mention, I rediscovered the game Dragon Crystal for the Master System.  I only had it on the Game Gear back in the day, as it never saw U.S. release for the Master System that I know of.  Well, I finally picked up an import copy, and remembered how much I liked it.  It's a hard game to describe, a combo of RPG and puzzle elements, definitely an underrated title for the console.  Sega Master System - Dragon Crystal (//http)

It's a "Rogue-like" to the bone.  Somehow the Japanese keep ancient gaming genres alive better than us!

This is one of the Game Gear games that is available for download on the 3DS, which is what I did a while ago. As a big fan of RPG's I really wanted to like it, but Rouge-Like games just aren't for me! The genre seems to be making a comeback though with lots of IOS/Android and indie games being made in that style.

I'm going to be honest and admit I completely forgot the term "Rogue-like" existed, I wasn't aware that genre made a comeback, either.     

I forgot how good the Sega Master Systems graphics were, holds up very well even today.

I've been playing my Master System a lot lately, for whatever reason, trying to go back and look at some of the more obscure games I've forgotten.  One  I've had for years, but hadn't played since the 90's, is Quartet.  This one is a port of a 2D platformer from the arcade, I believe the arcade version was 4 players (hence the name Quartet), but the MS version is only two player.  Looking back at it now, the gampley is somewhat generic, but the music is fantastic.  Not an all time great, but worth checking out if you get the chance.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1cG1WlC8I0 (//http)

Looks interesting.  May need to check it out.

Quote from: "TrekMD"Looks interesting.  May need to check it out.

I've been reading up on this game, apparently the Master System version was heavily modified: 

Quote  Quartet is a 1986 arcade game by Sega. Quartet allows one to four players to guide a set of characters through a base taken over by an army of robots. Players control either Joe (yellow), Mary (red), Lee (blue) or Edgar (green) across a number of sideways-scrolling levels. The object of the game is to advance through the level, fighting opponents that come out of portals in the walls, and eventually defeat a boss that carries the door key used to open the "exit door" for the level.

Players can find various power-ups during play, such as a jet pack that allowed characters to stay airborne, springs to jump higher, speed boots, and point bonuses. Each character has a separate characteristic weapon type, which can be upgraded by picking up a coloured bouncing orb that bounced across the screen occasionally. Picking up the orb when it is a player's colour gives a weapon power up, while picking up the orb when it is another player's color gives a point bonus (but deprives the other player the chance to upgrade).

Available in arcades in the same timeframe as Gauntlet, Quartet provided another option for more than two players.

The game was ported to the Sega Master System. However, only Mary and Edgar (whose name is spelled "Edger" and given a lighter skin tone) were playable, with the title confusingly referring to a four-person band that doesn't exist in the game. Because of this, in Japan the game was retitled Double Target. Mary's character design was also altered between regional versions. In the Japanese version Mary had more Asian-like features (including black hair), whereas in the western versions she has Caucasian features instead (which resembles Sigourney Weaver's character Ellen Ripley from the movie Aliens).

The game was also ported to home computers Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC and Sinclair ZX Spectrum.

The tunes "Oki Rap" and "FM Funk" were later recycled for 1991's Spider-Man: The Video Game.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartet_%28video_game%29 (//http)

I had no idea they recycled music from this game for Spider-Man, but it makes a lot of sense considering how good it was.  I also realize why they put so much effort into it, given the music theme.  Also, the name makes much more sense, as they were a quartet of musicians.  I'm going to fire up MAME later and really check out the difference between the arcade and home console version.

Good info!  Most definitely checking it out.

Music is really good. If a gamer was coming from a 2600 console, this would have been impressive back in 1986.

Recommending another forgotten Master System title I dug out and replayed, Golvellius.  This one is a really underrated Zelda II clone (or maybe Zelda II inspired is a better description).  Again, another Master System game with a great soundtrack, I think that's one advantage it had over the NES that isn't mentioned enough looking back.  If you're a Zelda II fan at all, I'd highly recommend this one: Golvellius: Valley of Doom Game Sample - Sega Master System (//http)

I have never played Zelda for more then a few minutes. I have collected most of them but never had the desire to play.

This Sega Master System game really looks good and I agree the music is great!

Here is an interesting MOD of the Sega Master System II done by Amka based on Slimer from Ghostbusters.  I'm posting some of the pictures below but you can see more details here:  Amka creates a glow in the dark Ghostbusters-themed Sega Master System modification (//http).

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Lol that's completely whacko.

You could say that.  LOL

Yep, definitely crazy, but very impressive work!

Any one play Dead Angle or see it in the arcade? Funny thing, for the longest time, I thought it was called "Dead Angel".  Not the greatest game by far, but I find it interesting because of its style and the fact that is was an obscure later release here in the states.  It almost seems like this game should've been a Operation Wolf style light gun game.

The No Swear Gamer Retro Reviews Ep 18 D is for Dead Angle or Dead Angel? (Sega Master System) (//http)

Nice video.  That's an interesting way of presenting a shooting game with your character being resented as nothing more than a wireframe. 

I love Dead Angle, nice video!  Laser Ghost is a similar game you might want to do a video for as well, just throwing that out there.

Well I've decided to go after a full set of SMS games. All the Atari and Famicom stuff has gone towards funding it now. Here's a brief vid of what I have to start with:

http://youtu.be/LYyTu-QMRbM?list=UUiJB7v3PT7tugoYHQfqSFVw (//http)

You truly a retro gaming bipolar collector lol.

One minute this, the next that, followed up by ohh what's that..yes definitely a bipolar collector

I'm more determined with this one, I actually like the games!

Yeah, I'm with you on the MS, but they take up so much damn space. I guess I'm two thirds of the way to a full Pal set, but I'm considering putting what I've got into storage and getting an ever drive.

I've had the thought of going for a complete set a couple times for different consoles, but in the end it's just too much work and too costly! Good luck Lorfarius, I hope you reach your goal

I might be able to do this (mostly!) in 6 months.  I've got about 30 games so far (loads haven't arrived yet) and thanks to selling my Famicom have another £80 to spend tonight on a good pile of boxed games.  I think once this is done I'll venture over into the Mega Drive but that's a way off.

Good luck getting that collection completed! 

Nice big haul today!

You are going for it pal, where you get that lot from?

eBay, few mixed auctions.

Surely your best looking at the Friday Ads or similar sites?

I live in the middle of nowhere so very rare to get anything good.

In other news I was watching a copy of Road Rash which is one of the rarer £25 games.  Don't have the money for it with Xmas so close but I thought I'd drop a bid anyway. I've only gone and won the bloody thing 

lol, you are one crazy mofo.. love it though :109:

I thought I would mention I re-played Galaxy Force recently, and it's better than it gets credit for.  It is pretty much a Space Harrier clone, but an excellent one.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcZt-5dBD_4 (//http)

That really is pretty special.. 

No love for the SMS?  Time to revive this discussion!  I've been playing a lot of Master System games this month, especially Rastan and Wonderboy In Monster Land.

Let's wake the thread! :)

Quote from: TrekMD on December 21, 2017, 00:06:10 AM
Let's wake the thread! :)

LOL, I discovered this thread because I was searching for a high quality photo of the Master System on google and the photo in the first post is what I found

LOL  That's a roundabout way to get back to the forum!  :)

I bought a Power Base Converter last week...and it doesn't work XD

It's either my Model 1 Genesis or the PBC, but for some reason, after playing it for about 30 minutes, if I decide to play a different SMS game, I'll get nothing but a black screen when I turn it back on.  This lasts for about an hour and then it's fine again.  I'm going to test this on someone else's Genesis and if it still does this, I'm returning it and putting out the extra money for a model 1 Master System.  Besides. I wanted one anyway  ;D

Hmm, I do not have an original one of those.  I bought one that is shaped like a cart that works quite well.  If you want a real SMS, though, then seems like the universe is sending you a message.  ;)

I guess so.  It certainly is a great excuse XD

It sure is!

I have been thinking about this system lately. Great versions of Choplifter and Rampage.

It is a often forgotten system, we should all pay it some attention.

Loved my Master System, got it for my birthday 1988, i had the hang-on/safari hunt pack with lightgun, was very futuristic and high tech compared to the NES which as a young boy made me want one!

Trying to remember what games i had, only had around 15 games in total before i sold it around 1991.

As well as the pack-in games i had

American Pro Football
Basketball Nightmare
Battle Outrun
California Games
Choplifter
Dynamite Dux
Golden Axe
Golfamania
Moonwalker
Operation Wolf
Space Harrier
Wonderboy 3 - Dragons Trap
World Soccer

Here is a nice video talking about the Master System from Retro Core...

Here is a video from Top Hat Gaming Man discusses the history of the Sega Master System and why it failed in the USA.

The Sega Master System is often overshadowed by its successor for great games.  In this video, John Hancock takes a look at this great console and share with you some of its best games.  Enjoy!

No love for the SMS?  Here's a video of unlreleased titles by The New Retro Show...

I'm a fan of the master system, never had one when I was a kid but did play it now again at a neighbours, I prefer it over the nes  I find the graphics better, maybe it lacks in quality titles but still some decent games, I don't have a massive collection for it 33 games I think.

Sounds like a nice collection that you have Sanddancer. I agree the Sega Master System does have a few decent titles.

If there is an upside to the Sega Master System failures then it would have to be the choice to release the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive. Thankfully Sega did not give up.