Anyone plunking down the dinero for these games (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/255538-jaguar-ports-on-cart-available-here/?p=3565051)? I'd be all over them but the timing is unbelievably bad for me. Looks like 16 are up right now with more on the way once 'completed.' The ST ports thread says more are complete but are apparently going to be revisited for some possible tweaks.
Al says they're made with all new parts-including the pcb boards from my understanding. Seems to be a good deal at $45 USD each and can upgrade to clear cart shell for an additional $10 while supplies last or until more come in.
That works out to $720 for all 16 with regular cart shells or $880 with clear shells.
That's a lot of jack but worth it and I intend to buy in fully to support what's been done here and hopefully get a little return to those deserving for the effort. Playing these on a Jaguar minus the Skunkboard will be fun. (don't get me wrong, I love my Skunkboards, but the "real" thing is a bonus) Just hope Treasure Island Dizzy makes the cut. Can't get that one to work in VJ, Skunkboard or as a CD.
I'm all for enterprise on producing products that are new and exciting but this is an over priced cash in brought in on a day 1 concept to capitise on such an opportunity to produce a one to one standard port over with minor extras of MP3 remixes or version been implemented into the final product, they are fully aware of collector elites that will have no choice but to purchase these from day as part of a complete collection, I'm not slandering the indivuals themselves but very much calculated money spinner here, which seems to be fine with those willing to part with their cash for software that can be played natively on orignal hardware from which it's been ported from. The likes of C. Jones are self proclaimed hipocrites as well as slanderous trolls when it suits themselves ,it goes unignored by many with fear that they won't get any new warez from team Reboot.
If they had of created brand new IPs with help from the community of artist , musicans as well as their own coding talent could really push the envelope and release worth while purchasing exclusive homebrew titles that would fit the comercial bill rather than others work from the past and chargin $45 for it is a bit of a travesty to be honest. Now I know people will see this are a trolling post, but believe me I've no intention of causing conflict, I'm simply giving my opinion and bears no personal judgment to those mention or were they can be purchased. I would simply think that exclusive and orignal games being produced would be far better than an emulated routine to run ST code on an Atari Jaguar.
Damn, those are some great points. I try not to pay too much attention to all the bs that goes with the Jaguar people. Anything I find insulting I just let go. Have for 20 years with the exception of a few epic battles. I'm assuming that some of that $45 was to cover costs for the new boards, chips and shells with some going to the original authors. Maybe that's naive on my part but I always look & hope for the best in people.
I'm glad you posted, it's definitely food for thought.
Has there been any mention of money going to the original authors/publishers? Or whether they even have legal permission to sell these? They're basically just old Atari ST retail games hacked to run on the Jaguar's 68000, right? Seems to be much closer to piracy than 'homebrew'.
Yes of course they would be able to break it down on the cost of board, casing and chips etc. but I can't grasp the concept of port exsisiting computer titles other than a release on another format to which they've officiously seen an opening to do so, I don't criticise the skill set involved to doing this, it's clever reverse engineering of one platform to another, but by doing so regardless of royalties being paid on a mass production level they are profiting from what started as "see if it could be done" theory has now become a way to get paid for doing so, which in itself is enterprising and brings with it a selection of titles that wouldn't be possible without that reprogramming.
I'm sure there are titles out there that were completed and unreleased on both the Atari ST, Amiga (if possible) being finally brought to the masses as either rom dumps for free for use on a skunk board or with the possible of producing a cartridge version of such titles I think would fair better with the justification of purchasing them if the collector desired, a lot of avenues to be explored right there, but I can't help but feel that the release of old games just doesn't seem right or what's the point? Other than to charge money for which is exceptible to many, others will differ and with the ST library been in the thousands I can see them doing a lot more of these pretty much for the next couple of years. The unfortunate beast that is the Jaguar community, never has there been such self harming to its followers begs how this is all been done in such a professional manner is something of a paradox lol.
But you have the choice whether to buy into it or not but better have deep pocket from both the privilege and limited numbers.
I can see everybody's point here. For the hardcore Jag fan it's great getting new games for the system. Legally though, it's pretty questionable. As for the cost, I understand the parts are expensive and there's work involved but it does seem a little high.
I doubt I will buy any of these just because of the cost but it doesn't bother me that they are doing it. I still think it's a neat idea in any case.
Cjones has made the ports availed for free if you have a skunk board etc, but he's now a business man with no smart arse remarks these days to those that oppose him and hasn't replied to anybody with concerns to what they are doing wonder why that is? Hmm? :)
Again as I posted its an opening to grab some exclusive bucks from the diehard fan, the order page on the forum is 3 pages worth with simple statements of " PM sent" etc, so they know there on to a winner, but without real validation of source Devs being approached regarding permission could deem this highly illegal, now although a lot if the games are abandonware now, there are titles in the list still very much owned by an existing ip holder. But it will either draw attention or it won't, the Atari Jaguar isn't known for drawing huge crowds of interest, like the NES etc..so I think it's a case of let's hope for the best, do the limit run and leave it at that, this is the reason for it as if it wasn't I'm very sure they've have no problem of finding a new supplier of cases,chips and boards to keep the gravy train rolling.
Its straight up piracy and selling of things they didnt create. Of course their defense will be
"well we dumped the loaded game contents that was in ram to a file and then ported that content".
They're probably riding this as their wave to freedom here as the content wasn't the rom that was included it was the data the rom loaded into the emulated ST system ram. All they did beyond that was intercept audio/video calls and patch them into one of the many jaguar audio engines out there. and patch in samples. Its a GIANT pile of hack
Whats really funny is that they stated that if anyone had made cart copies of these hacks that they would stop doing them, only to turn around and make them for profit themselves.. WTF....
Its really high time people take a look around and see what these guys have been about the entire time.
But if they feed you a few shitty hacked ST ports to look the other way, the cycle keeps on going...
People will buy the item regardless if its legal or not it seems and dont have to worry about legalities of the issue since they aren't the ones selling it. However, the tables turn when you go to resell your copy you bought to someone else. You are now selling pirated/illegal content...
It's a double edged sword for me personally. I have no issues with people porting games. Let's be honest this porting of games is not exclusive to the Jag, other systems see plenty of ported games.
There is a legal question in the porting of games and one I tend to be blind too. However I think we as a whole need to acknowledge the copyright owners and perhaps be more mindful of what we buy into.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought I had commented on this before. Oh well nvm.
I had said that I was somewhat reluctant to pay such a lot of money for games ported from a 16-bit system as I don't feel this is making the best use of the Jag's abilities. However, because Gauntlet 2 has been made to work with the teamtap, I did the unthinkable and ordered it along with R-type. Can't see me buying any more but the pull of 4 player Gauntlet on the Jag was just too much to resist. "Warrior needs food"!
I played R-Type via Skunkboard and man, is that one hard game. If the option to cheat w/ unlimitied lives wasn't available, I'd not have played as much as I did. May load it up at some point again and memorize the patterns. It'd be cool to be one of the first to post completing it :D
Quote from: Saturn on August 15, 2016, 16:00:42 PM
I played R-Type via Skunkboard and man, is that one hard game. If the option to cheat w/ unlimitied lives wasn't available, I'd not have played as much as I did. May load it up at some point again and memorize the patterns. It'd be cool to be one of the first to post completing it :D
Yes, I had read that R-type was hard but looks amazing on the Jag. I played it in the arcades donkeys years ago, hence the enthusiasm now. Gauntlet of course is a pure classic and not many games utilise the teamtap so it is a must. I look forward to seeing your high scores with R-type, good luck!
if you guys really want these i could be convinced to burn a few cart copies probably... you wont get label from me and you'd have to supply parts (donor cart)
Damn, I knew I shoulda bought that 35 Cybermorphs lot on ebay from Kevincal.
What about the BJL mod? I have 7 Jags that need it and no resource. Please let me know if that's possible, thanks :)
Quote from: Saturn on August 15, 2016, 23:51:05 PM
Damn, I knew I shoulda bought that 35 Cybermorphs lot on ebay from Kevincal.
What about the BJL mod? I have 7 Jags that need it and no resource. Please let me know if that's possible, thanks :)
Why BJL on 7 jags?
I have a bjl Cartridge i made for a one or two people a while back that plugs in. its basically a plug and play solution but you have to make your own cable.
Quote from: rush6432 on August 16, 2016, 00:43:20 AM
Why BJL on 7 jags?
My only other one is about to tank and sending these overseas is costly for both money and time.
Quote from: rush6432 on August 16, 2016, 00:43:20 AM
I have a bjl Cartridge i made for a one or two people a while back that plugs in. its basically a plug and play solution but you have to make your own cable.
Well, idk how to make a cable but interested in the cart. How much does one cost?
Finally found the More Than Games site that has the BJL adapter (http://morethangames.a8maestro.com/prodgame/adv-bjl.htm).
DB25 cables (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKO-6ft-DB25-Male-Female-Serial-Extension-Cable-25C-/371219620377?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item566e69e219) are pretty inexpensive too, so I'm assuming there's no need to butcher the cable now. 8)
Quote from: Cryptic33 on August 15, 2016, 15:42:19 PM
I had said that I was somewhat reluctant to pay such a lot of money for games ported from a 16-bit system as I don't feel this is making the best use of the Jag's abilities. However, because Gauntlet 2 has been made to work with the teamtap, I did the unthinkable and ordered it along with R-type. Can't see me buying any more but the pull of 4 player Gauntlet on the Jag was just too much to resist. "Warrior needs food"!
I ordered those two as well for similar reasons. The one I may consider to add is Joust as it was also enhanced from the ST version. So, it's not just a straight port from the ST.
Why can't these games be made to run on the Jag CD? Seems a lot of money for a old ST port on a cart, surely having Gauntlet 2 on CD, even multiple games on one disc and still have the team tap option, or is there a reason why they are selling them on cart?
Some of the ROMs got too big to put on CD. Early versions of Joust and Gauntlet II work fine but with the additional hacks in Gauntlet and sound files in Joust, they reached 4MB and exceeded what the disk could run once converted and encrypted. I believe that's short version, anyway.
Quote from: AmigaJay on August 16, 2016, 20:51:31 PM
Why can't these games be made to run on the Jag CD? Seems a lot of money for a old ST port on a cart, surely having Gauntlet 2 on CD, even multiple games on one disc and still have the team tap option, or is there a reason why they are selling them on cart?
because these binaries/roms are made to execute from cart memory address and not ram probably. Jaguar system ram is only 2mb in size and if the rom is less than that and compiled to run in jaguar system ram, then sure you could burn it to load from jag cd into ram and execute.
However, since most are probably bloated and over 2mb, they must be held on eeproms on cart and executed from there.
Jag cd NORMALLY functions in such a way that once it boots it throws a small "boot loader" program into system ram which then looks back at the cd and loads the game/programs code into system ram and any other graphics or whatever and runs from there. Additionally you could just load one large 1.9mb progam into ram and run that also which is what most of the programs out there do that convert programs to run on jag cd.
Anything thats a homebrew and linked to run from $4000 to $200000 Address and 2mb or less in size can be loaded from jag cd and dumped into ram and run. If linked for cart (start address of $802000, 800000, ect) it has to run from cart
Quote from: Saturn on August 16, 2016, 01:10:21 AM
Quote from: rush6432 on August 16, 2016, 00:43:20 AM
Why BJL on 7 jags?
My only other one is about to tank and sending these overseas is costly for both money and time.
Quote from: rush6432 on August 16, 2016, 00:43:20 AM
I have a bjl Cartridge i made for a one or two people a while back that plugs in. its basically a plug and play solution but you have to make your own cable.
Well, idk how to make a cable but interested in the cart. How much does one cost?
I think i was charging like 40-45 for them, but i havnt made any in a while. If you really want one i might be able to snag some parts and do some. I have a few copies of blackout sittnig around too (cart) and other things that might eventually go up for sale when im able to
Awesome! Well, I'm ready to buy a BJL cart anytime and will buy or bid on a Blackout too. :D
What is the difference between a BJL DType 25 to 9 pin connector and a BJL cart?
I don't know about either but am interested as HELL to find out about the BJL cart 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: zapiy on August 23, 2016, 06:31:22 AM
What is the difference between a BJL DType 25 to 9 pin connector and a BJL cart?
So the BJL cart is just a cartridge version of the bjl mod but you dont have to open your jaguar and hack apart the boot rom and solder in anything. It just loads the BJL loader/interface up from cart and runs.
The good part to this is ease of use and not modding your system, so it stays original.
The db25 to db15 is just converting parallel port on a pc to the 15 pin connector that is found on the jaguar controller ports. You basically use a parallel cable (25 pin) from your pc to the adapter (db25 to db15) right into the 2nd controller port of the jaguar. Thats how you upload homebrew programs via bjl.
Saturn:
Ill check into what i have sitting around in parts at home. I might have some cart parts but was saving them for another release but... im going from memory here, i really dont remember what i have on hand or how much.
Awesome, and if you don't have enough parts, no worries. Just LOVE stuff related to transferring data between PC and Jag :D
The guys doing this have spent years about people pirating their own software and making money of their work, now they are doing it.
They even said that they would stop doing ports as people were selling them and trying to make money of them.
It seems its only ok to make money of other peoples work if they do, not anyone else. this is piracy and the guys doing it are hypcrites.
Quote from: SnakeEyes on August 27, 2016, 10:31:20 AM
The guys doing this have spent years about people pirating their own software and making money of their work, now they are doing it.
They even said that they would stop doing ports as people were selling them and trying to make money of them.
It seems its only ok to make money of other peoples work if they do, not anyone else. this is piracy and the guys doing it are hypcrites.
Just watch anyone try to speak up or question the legality on AA and see what happens. Reboot and company all sit around in a giant circle jerk, dutch ruddering each other and signing up shill accounts to speak out against people questioning their tactics to try to force a negative opinion of the forum poster that questioned them. Its really obvious.... Not to mention they're super paranoid about anyone from the jaguar scene of past posting on their precious AA forums. 40-50+ Year old guys acting like they're 16 years old again. My guess is they worried someone might ruin the only thing good they have left in their life?!? (sad but true probably)
Look at the quality of most of that stuff too. Just because the game is running doesn't mean that the sound works or music works correctly. They aren't porting anything really, just hacking the ST code and redirecting normal ST hardware calls to the jaguar and writing the screen out to a bitmap/screen buffer and using a jaguar audio engine to play music or sounds that are triggered from the ST code. In most cases (almost all) its not even the original audio or music, just some blanket trash to suffice anyone questioning that its missing. Clever idea, but piss poor implementation and honestly if i wanted to play ST games id get an ST.
I did see someone complain that their post was removed without notice. Not sure what the person posted but it could have done with the legality of selling these.
Quote from: TrekMD on August 27, 2016, 21:15:15 PM
I did see someone complain that their post was removed without notice. Not sure what the person posted but it could have done with the legality of selling these.
100 percent sure it had to do with that. My post was removed as well. That thread is heavily censored.