Retro Video Gamer

We didn't have one of these so I thought I would start one.

It also gives me a chance to plug my new video 

So here we go, it's a lot shorter than the Lynx one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyHYIID5Dw8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyHYIID5Dw8)

Great vid Laird.

Did love my G.Gear at the time, but it was a mother for going through batteries, plus as you say, appalling screen, blur central!.Seemed odd how folks would moan at size of the Lynx, yet i was putting the MS convertor and also the screen enlargement lens on mine, both of which made the device damn hefty for long periods of playing time.

Loved GG Shinobi, Sonic 1, Lemmings, etc on it.

Little bit harsh perhaps to knock the libary being MS ports in the main, as by it's very design that was always going to happen.PC Engine GT going to get 'The Vid' treatment?

Huge a fan of the Lynx as i am, it too played host to so many games that were avaiable on other systems:Toki, Paperboy, Hard drivin, Steel Talons, Pitfighter, Rampage, Roadblasters, SOTB, Switchblade 2, D.Strike, Super Off road, Toki, APB, Klax etc and yet it lacked something of it's own to really combat Shinobi or Sonic.

Off top of my head Lynx exclusives that really did it for me:Blue Lightning, Crystal Mines 2, Dracula, but the rest, were honestly just superb versions of games i could or had played elsewhere.

i bought my G.G when i was an ST owner and fact it could play MS games as well as G.G games made it the choice over the MS, already had 1 gaming device plugged into TV, was'nt looking for another to sit alongside (how different that is now with every plug taken, lol)

I really enjoyed it.. he's getting good at the video lark.. but again they lack video game play or any visual elaboration on the faults would of been welcomed..again constructive comments, to do these videos takes allot of time and effort and good software and what Laird has done is fantastic so far..so thumbs up from me

excellent video.

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Little bit harsh perhaps to knock the libary being MS ports in the main, as by it's very design that was always going to happen.PC Engine GT going to get 'The Vid' treatment?

I don't have one, so no sorry! I wish I did though!

I have already been asked to do a Nomad one, same answer.

Think Game Gear exclusives like Shining Force, Defenders Of Oasis and Phantasy Star Gaiden ought to be mentioned, was'nt all just MS ports.

Personally don't think you need gameplay footage for a 15 min video, Laid does superb job of talking you through the system as is.

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Little bit harsh perhaps to knock the libary being MS ports in the main, as by it's very design that was always going to happen.PC Engine GT going to get 'The Vid' treatment?

I don't have one, so no sorry! I wish I did though!

I have already been asked to do a Nomad one, same answer.

Maybe do a Darran Jones and ask if someone has one of whatever machine you want to review, donate one to be returned of course..surely you know lots of guys that would?

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Think Game Gear exclusives like Shining Force, Defenders Of Oasis and Phantasy Star Gaiden ought to be mentioned, was'nt all just MS ports.

Personally don't think you need gameplay footage for a 15 min video, Laid does superb job of talking you through the system as is.

I hate RPGs, so didn't even think of those.

Well, SoniC Blast, Triple Trouble, Labyrinth, Tails adventure, Sky Patrol, 2 Sonic Drifts came out on G.G 1st then MS i think.

Also there was G.G Aleste, Mega Man, Panzer dragon Mini, Ronald Mc Donald.


Plus seen global sales of G.G put around 8.65 Million, of which only 1.78 Million are put down to Japan, despite it having more exclusives released there.

Quote from: "Greyfox"

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Little bit harsh perhaps to knock the libary being MS ports in the main, as by it's very design that was always going to happen.PC Engine GT going to get 'The Vid' treatment?

I don't have one, so no sorry! I wish I did though!

I have already been asked to do a Nomad one, same answer.

Maybe do a Darran Jones and ask if someone has one of whatever machine you want to review, donate one to be returned of course..surely you know lots of guys that would?

GT only plays PC Engine carts does it not? was there ever anything written specifically for the portable exp.?

Nice vid, and vailid points although naturally I have to disagree on the library's quality. :)

Just remembered Prince Of Persia on G.G.I'd originally played the St version, never took to it, but bought G.G version on a whim and was hooked, so there indeed was a case of it did'nt matter it was'nt an exclusive, it just seemed tto work better on G.G for some reason.

Plus sure Lynx would have benifitted from any/all of the following appearing on it:

Alien 3, EWJ, Jungle strike, Lion King, Madden, fifa, Micro Machines, the MK games, Prince Of Persia, Road Rash, Super Kick Off.

We can mistfully look at games that were planned for Lynx, but never made it, but in cold light of day, G.Gear just had the far wider selection of games people wanted.

With Nintendo capturing so much of the developers market as they had, SEGA did great to get 3rd party support they did for G.G.

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Just remembered Prince We can mistfully look at games that were planned for Lynx, but never made it, but in cold light of day, G.Gear just had the far wider selection of games people wanted.

With Nintendo capturing so much of the developers market as they had, SEGA did great to get 3rd party support they did for G.G.

That's the thing.
Now beside Atari Germany not promoting the Lynx much, even if they had done more ads etc, it just lacked the games we as kids wanted back then. Only now am I able to appreciate the relatively unknown Lynx exclusives. And the big names the Lynx had were mostly old back then already...in the early 90ies you could not get masses of kids to get excited about Ms.Pac-Man or Joust. We wanted Street Fighter, MK, FIFA and all those big names. And of course licensed stuff, from comics to TV series ans movie licenses.

woah.Arena looks nice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrfly2K1q8I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrfly2K1q8I)

There's that English guy again!  Boy, does he like to make videos. 

Quote from: "108 Stars"Jump' n runs like Sonic Triple Trouble, Legend of Illusion, Dynamite Headdy, Tails Adventure and Ristar did not come out on the SMS.

(http://www.segasaturno.com/portal/files/images/869/dynamite_headdy_sms.jpg)   (http://www.gametronik.com/site/rubriques/master_system/Jeux/Mickey%20Mouse%20-%20Legend%20of%20Illusion/Scans/Legend%20of%20Illusion%20starring%20Mickey%20Mouse.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mpTQcsg.jpg?1) 

Quote from: "108 Stars"

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Just remembered Prince We can mistfully look at games that were planned for Lynx, but never made it, but in cold light of day, G.Gear just had the far wider selection of games people wanted.

With Nintendo capturing so much of the developers market as they had, SEGA did great to get 3rd party support they did for G.G.

That's the thing.
Now beside Atari Germany not promoting the Lynx much, even if they had done more ads etc, it just lacked the games we as kids wanted back then. Only now am I able to appreciate the relatively unknown Lynx exclusives. And the big names the Lynx had were mostly old back then already...in the early 90ies you could not get masses of kids to get excited about Ms.Pac-Man or Joust. We wanted Street Fighter, MK, FIFA and all those big names. And of course licensed stuff, from comics to TV series ans movie licenses.

I hate the sport, but Lynx get a footy game to call it's own? (i know it was well served, no pun, with Tennis and Golf), plus not having a big name 'current' era fighter like MK when your rivials did, did'nt do the Lynx any favours.

Lynx had quality software in droves, far better conversions of Stun Runner, Toki, Hard Drivin, Steel Talons etc than many home formats, but so often you'd see GB and G.G reviews of a big name game, but no sign of Lynx version.

GG and GB had plenty of older coin-op's etc converted, but they were part of a far richer line up of software.Ironic as so often the Lynx hardware was far better suited to a game (screen alone was much better), but it was never even considered.

The Lynx had European Soccer Challenge, a superb version of Manchester United Europe by Krisalis/Telegames:

(http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/reviews/lynx/EuroSoccer.jpg)

It also had the utterly terrible World Class Soccer too:

(http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/reviews/lynx/World_Class_Soccer.png)

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "108 Stars"Jump' n runs like Sonic Triple Trouble, Legend of Illusion, Dynamite Headdy, Tails Adventure and Ristar did not come out on the SMS.

(http://www.segasaturno.com/portal/files/images/869/dynamite_headdy_sms.jpg)   (http://www.gametronik.com/site/rubriques/master_system/Jeux/Mickey%20Mouse%20-%20Legend%20of%20Illusion/Scans/Legend%20of%20Illusion%20starring%20Mickey%20Mouse.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mpTQcsg.jpg?1)

They came out later though, only once licencse given to bring them out on MS, so technically they are G.G exclusives for a period of time and for once the ports went the other way around, lol

Yes but 108 Stars said they did not come out on the SMS

Quote from: "The Laird"The Lynx had European Soccer Challenge, a superb version of Manchester United Europe by Krisalis/Telegames:

(http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/reviews/lynx/EuroSoccer.jpg)

It also had the utterly terrible World Class Soccer too:

(http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/reviews/lynx/World_Class_Soccer.png)

Did they have the same 'pulling power' as say something like Kick Off though?-Just thinking along lines of punter see's Kick Off on GB (awful as it is), and game gear, looks for Lynx version, nothing.

Well European Soccer Challenge made the front cover of GO! and the original ST/Amiga game was top of the games charts for months. It was also ported to the Mega Drive as European Club Soccer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester ... ame_series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_United_(video_game_series))

At the time it was easily as big as any other footy game.

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "108 Stars"Jump' n runs like Sonic Triple Trouble, Legend of Illusion, Dynamite Headdy, Tails Adventure and Ristar did not come out on the SMS.

(http://www.segasaturno.com/portal/files/images/869/dynamite_headdy_sms.jpg)   (http://www.gametronik.com/site/rubriques/master_system/Jeux/Mickey%20Mouse%20-%20Legend%20of%20Illusion/Scans/Legend%20of%20Illusion%20starring%20Mickey%20Mouse.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mpTQcsg.jpg?1)

Brazilian, Brazilian and Repro. :)

Still counts 

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"GG and GB had plenty of older coin-op's etc converted, but they were part of a far richer line up of software.Ironic as so often the Lynx hardware was far better suited to a game (screen alone was much better), but it was never even considered.

Another good point. I was about to include Space Harrier on GG in my list, because it is a completely different port from the ground up; but it is not very good, and just think how Space Harrier and the other Super Scaler games could have looked on the Lynx!

Damn, I wish Sega had taken the hardware from Epyx instead of Atari! :)

Quote from: "108 Stars"

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"GG and GB had plenty of older coin-op's etc converted, but they were part of a far richer line up of software.Ironic as so often the Lynx hardware was far better suited to a game (screen alone was much better), but it was never even considered.

Another good point. I was about to include Space Harrier on GG in my list, because it is a completely different port from the ground up; but it is not very good, and just think how Space Harrier and the other Super Scaler games could have looked on the Lynx!

Damn, I wish Sega had taken the hardware from Epyx instead of Atari! :)

Trouble is, speaking as an Ex-Mega CD owner, i'm left wondering just what exactly SEGA would have done with the Lynx, had they have taken it as they themselves seemed to make so little use of the MCD scaling hardware when it was ripe for converting Scaler coin-op's too.

But also, lets suppose for a moment your SEGA, you've spent an age (and lot of money) priming yourselves for the launch of the Genesis/MD in Europe and USA, this, your going to use to stamp home fact you mean buisness, true 16 Bit system unlike the PC Engine and suddenly your offered a piece of hardware which you could use to gain a foothold in the handheld market, but not only is is ideally suited to convert your coin-ops to, but it out does your own hardware in terms of colours to choose from (4096 VS 512) and sprite scaling etc, how would you market 1 without making the other look inferior in some areas?.

Tricky situation, lol and you def.would not want to be licenscing out your coin-op's for conversion to it in the hands of someone else, espically if you knew damn well it could possibly deliver a closer conversion.

The ironic thing is that Sega were offered the Lynx and turned it down, they then tried to copy the design but couldn't and even contacted ex-Epyx guys themselves to help. One of them actually flew over to help them get something working and suggested they just make a portable Master System to save time so they did!

Quote from: "The Laird"The ironic thing is that Sega were offered the Lynx and turned it down, they then tried to copy the design but couldn't and even contacted ex-Epyx guys themselves to help. One of them actually flew over to help them get something working and suggested they just make a portable Master System to save time so they did!

Typical SEGA (sadly) only to look at them later turning down the offer of a 1-chip solution to bring the Saturn up to Playstation performance level's from people behind the N64 technology, due to 'pride' (SEGA much prefering any hardware to come from themselves rather than rely on outside help).

As for build quality, i know ATARI often takes flak for issues with the Lynx (spray painted plastic, loose AC port etc), but had SEGA taken on the 'Handy' technology, what's betting we'd still have seen cheap, poor quality components used in it's construction, inc awful LCD screens?.

Off all the SEGA hardware i've owned:

My Game Gear screen went (after 6 months from new), MCD never had any technical issues, but was a clumsy design (metal plates etc), the 32X set up was awful, extra plug needed, mess of cables), my Saturn would reset after 30 mins plus of play time and went through numerous Dreamcast's due to the resetting issue.

Great games but boy did SEGA's manufacturing and design often leave a lot to be desired.

Hmh, I must say beside the Game Gear and Dreamcast (which has the notorious problem of thinking the lid is open, which brings the menue back up and quites the game) I found Sega's hardware and designs to be among the best in the business. Granted, I did not own a  Saturn myself, but at least I never heard of people having to turn it upside down like my three (!) PS1 consoles, two of which eventually totally died. And I'm saying that as a Sony fan.^^
Master System, Mega Drive and Mega-CD are all pretty much flawless. MCD1 can have issues with the opening tray, if it ever disadjusts you can't play and it's a major pain to fix, but the systems generally still work today.

The 32X... I am always wondering if people started complaining about the extra power supply after the AVGN did. Seriously, of course it needs an extra power supply; and no other company could have made it differently. We're talking about a hardware with many times the power of the stock Mega Drive itself; there's two RISC CPUs each clocked at over 20 Mhz in it. The 32X is much more powerful than either MD or Mega-CD, and even both combined. There's just no way the single AC adaptor from the Mega Drive would have been enough.


I look at Nintendo and I see:
NES cart slots wearing out a lot. SNES pads shoulder buttons wearing out easily. N64 thumbstick wearing out easily. Gameboy screens losing vertical lines one by one with the years until little of the screen is still visible.

Atari:
Jaguar is a strange design; no cart slot lid causing lots of dust to settle. The rounded shape of the cart slot making the carts not fit in snug, but you can wiggle them around quite a lot; no system I ever had needed so many restarts because the cart was not in correctly. Jag CD has the lousiest build quality ever. You fell like it will fall apart any moment, and with it's cartslot being so off center you can easily detach it accidently when changing carts. Also needs it's own PSU btw, despite there being much less in it hardwarewise than in the 32X.

Atari 5200: joysticks.

Lynx I: spray paint covering the cheapest plastic ever used for a video game system. Strange placing of the card slot. Beside that, no complaints.


So... I don't think that Sega made a bad job at hardware in general. I always felt I was buying quality.

That said, the issue of the Lynx scaling capabilities being superior to the Mega Drive would have been a concern; but then again the Lynx was designed in 1987, before the Mega Drive was final. Had Sega taken the Lynx, they might have added a Suzy to the Mega Drive, who knows?

Yeah I don't get the criticism of Sega here either by RT, I even mentioned in my video how shocked I was that the GG was so badly built when the MD and SMS were so good. I have also never had a problem with either of my Saturns and thought that machine had a rep for reliability, especially compared to the PlayStation.

I will never understand all the criticism of the Jag CD either, I have had mine since new and never ever had a problem with it and it's been all over the place with me including several flights on an airplane. It now has a broken catch on the lid but that is because some arsehole broke it at a retro show and not because its unreliable in any way. I have certainly never even heard of that detachment problem you spoke of let alone experienced it!

:-) in my defence i can and indeed have ripped into numerous other machines i've bought/still own, but since it was a SEGA related thread i stuck to SEGA hardware, but i'll quite happily wax vocal about the Atari ST ports being underneath the machine, the PSP analogue nub, the plastic lens holder on the PSone, the entire look of the N64-would shame Fisher Price, the PS2 dual shock dead zone on sticks,  etc etc.

Plus i've never understood the 'love' for the GC controller, nor hate for the the Jaguar or original Xbox (not S-type) controller.

But back onto SEGA hardware poor design:seriousily, you guys never seen the board layout on the Saturn? it's a mess and what makes it more of a kick in the face, it could have been all together different, had SEGA taken up Silicon Graphics offer of a simplistic, single chip design CPU that could compete with Playstation, instead we end up with Parallel 32 Bit RISC chip configuration, something even Yu Suzuki admitted made life very difficult and that he'd have much prefered a single, fast CPU and that most Saturn developers would struggle to get 1.5X the Speed of a sigle SH-2 chip when coding for both (a lot just used a single SH-2).

As for the MCD? that metal tray was utterly pointless, the automated disc tray and flashing lights just added extra cost to the device (i paid £270 for mine on day 1).

I've owned 2 Saturns, 1 suffered reset issues, other did'nt, so that's a 50% failure rate there, same applied to my Game Cubes, 1st would reset, 2nd did'nt.

From my launch day Dreamcast i went through 5 machines, all suffered the reset issue, easy to open up case and tweak prongs in short term, but that's why i now own 2 Dreamcasts, 1 for use, 1 as a back up.

My G.G, as i say, screen went in mere 6 months of use.

So i can only comment on hardware exp.as i've found it, had 3 Xboxes, no issues there, on my 2nd PS2, nothing gone wrong with either, PSP? well i broke my 1st one, now own another 3, never had issue like dead pixels, my 360 is an Elite, never had anE74 or Red Ring on it, PS3 is same 40G model, had a 250G HDD that I bought and had put in fail, but then i've had 3 PC HDD's suffer same issue (bad sectors) but no yellow light.

GB? well never use as screen is bloody awful, ditto for GBA, never had issue with the Micro though.

32X well i owned years ago, long before i joined here (which was 1st time i ever watched an AVGN video, lol) and it is bloody awful, having to connect RF cables etc, it looks  crude.


32X might be more powerful, but only really gave MD: extra colours it badly needed, better sound chip (which MCD also did, except it was hardly used) and limited 3D abilities, it was a poor stop-gap of a platform, poor decision by SEGA to release it, espically after the damage done by the handling of the MCD (yeah, great idea to release FMV crap on a machine with limited colours onscreen, plus avaiable to choose from)

Just in short: The 32X was a great decision by Sega, the only bad thing was they dropped it so early because Sega of Japan wanted all ressources poured into Saturn only. Sega of America wanted the 32X.
I dare to say the 32X could have helped Sega stay competeive; it was a success at first, sold like hot cakes until Sega could not deliver anymore in time. It was more than adequate for its purpose, who knows what we would have seen on it eventually. After all, all that was released was one generation of games. People could get 3D games without shelling out as much as for an all new console. Ingenious.

The 32X should have been supported longer, and the Saturn delayed to tweak the hardware to be better designed so that developers can make more use of the power. Sega could have launched a beefed up Saturn against the N64 then.

Sega's abandoning the 32X was actually my reason for abandoning them. I had saved cash for the 32X when they stopped supporting it, and their actions lead me to buy a PlayStation instead of a Saturn.

But that is of course off-topic.

My experiences with Sega hardware just don't match yours. I only ever experienced three defects with Sega systems, the Dreamcast going back to the bootscreen, the Mega-CD-1-tray not closing correctly and the GG capacitators go bad. I never saw anything else go wrong with any Sega machine.

Quote from: "The Laird"The Lynx had European Soccer Challenge, a superb version of Manchester United Europe by Krisalis/Telegames:

(http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/reviews/lynx/EuroSoccer.jpg)

It also had the utterly terrible World Class Soccer too:

(http://www.retrovideogamer.co.uk/reviews/lynx/World_Class_Soccer.png)

Footy not being my thang, looked into a few G.Gear footy games, seems it had 'The Names' in terms of securing the biggest line up, Fifa, Sensi and Super Kick Off, seems it was spoilt somewhat, poor old Lynx had the quality, but not the brand by comparison.

Kick Off was actually announced for the Lynx at one point but never materialised.

As was World Cup Italia '90 by US Gold.

Quote from: "The Laird"Kick Off was actually announced for the Lynx at one point but never materialised.

As was World Cup Italia '90 by US Gold.

But i'm looking at it from point of view of what did arrive on each format, you've said the G.G had a worse selection of software (or something along those lines :-) ) yet it got a lot more of the cream than the Lynx did in key genres.someone looking to buy a colour handheld back then, only had to look to see which had the better software support and games they wanted and sadly the Lynx often came out 2nd best out of it and the G.G.

As well as Footy games, say someone like myself, into his comics and films, G.Gear had Predator II, Terminator, Spiderman, X-Men, Batman etc etc-Lynx had Batman Returns and any other film/comic book tie-in's of this type?.

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"

Quote from: "The Laird"Kick Off was actually announced for the Lynx at one point but never materialised.

As was World Cup Italia '90 by US Gold.

But i'm looking at it from point of view of what did arrive on each format, you've said the G.G had a worse selection of software (or something along those lines :-) ) yet it got a lot more of the cream than the Lynx did in key genres.someone looking to buy a colour handheld back then, only had to look to see which had the better software support and games they wanted and sadly the Lynx often came out 2nd best out of it and the G.G.

As well as Footy games, say someone like myself, into his comics and films, G.Gear had Predator II, Terminator, Spiderman, X-Men, Batman etc etc-Lynx had Batman Returns and any other film/comic book tie-in's of this type?.

No I didn't say it had a worse selection at all, not even close!

I said the quality of Lynx games was much better, very different things.

Easy Tiger, i put a ':-)' by it as could'nt recal exactly what was said and said 'something along those lines', hardly going to trawl through a 35 min vid just for a quote on a minor point of discussion.

If your going to talk quality, Lynx had more than it's fair share of duffers....

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Easy Tiger, i put a ':-)' by it as could'nt recal exactly what was said and said 'something along those lines', hardly going to trawl through a 35 min vid just for a quote on a minor point of discussion.

If your going to talk quality, Lynx had more than it's fair share of duffers....

Sorry I don't agree. For me, and I know I am not alone on this, the Lynx has the best good to bad games ratio of any console out there and there is a reason that the quality of it's library is always brought up in discussion. I would struggle to name 10 bad games from the Lynx's commercial releases. Cyberball, NFL Football, Krazy Ace, Baseball Heroes, World Class Soccer and Ninja Gaiden 3 are really the only ones I can think of, and only one of them isn't a sports game.

I could name 25 poor Game Gear game straight off the bat and I have only played around 100 of them.

? No need to be sorry mate, if we all thought the same this place would be pretty dull, lol.

End of the day, it comes down to personal preferences, as i said earlier, Prince Of Persia, tried 1st on ST, never got into it, picked it up on Game gear and was hooked.

APB i had on C64, then St, finally Lynx-Could not put Lynx version down, did that make the C64 or St versions any poorer in terms of quality? no, it just felt more suited to the format.

I rate Blue lighting higher than your goodself, dunno how you feel on Hydra for example, but know a lot of people rate it as poor.Pitfighter, i'd class as poor quality game on any format from coin-op to home conversions, Stun Runner and Hard Drivin i personally feel are more suited to the arcade, than home format, and whilst i cannot have nothing but praise for the technical feats they've pulled off on Lynx, they would'nt be must haves on my Lynx line up.

Puzzle games? i love Crystal Mines II, never a fan of Klax, tried on C64, then ST, so i would'nt go looking for the Lynx version, but then Columns bores the arse off me (more a Lumines/Super puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo type of guy).

Lynx D.strike i was dissapointed with given the hardware, sound espically, so i feel quality in conversion has suffered somewhat, plus G.G had it and Jungle Stike.

Dirty Larry was technically amazing, but not all that to play, Dracula was amazing, but no save system (if memory serves) crippling flaw.

I'll refresh my memory on just what did arrive on Lynx and discuss further.

And Ninja Gaiden is in my top 10 on the Lynx.^^

I'm with Rogue Trooper here, maybe the Lynx doesn't have a lot of total stinkers, but I would argue it doesn't have a lot of gems either. The Lynx library consists to me of mostly average or slightly above average games.

Definitely more real hits to be found on both Game Boy and Game Gear for me.  It's all a matter of opinion in the end of course, but I had never heard the argument about an especially positive good to bad ratio in discussions before I talked to you and read some of your magazine scans. I don't think that's a widely accepted fact, but a mere matter of taste.

But that's the thing with opinions, they differ greatly; you and I think Sega made good quality hardware, Rogue Trooper disagrees. I feel like the Jaguar is cheaply built, you disagree. Rogue Trooper thinks the 32X should not have been released, I think it should have been pushed even more. You don't like Reboot's games much, I do; but you like Blackout, which I don't think very highly of. I think you have a soft spot for Pit Fighter, which is an atrocity on any system it was released on in my eyes.
And on Atari Age I entered a shitstorm when I called Fight for Life one of the worst games ever made, which I wholeheartedly believe it is; but some people like it.
One thing you learn in the internet is that there is lots of opinions.

:-) Now....bearing in mind i'm not a racing game fan nor a sports game fan, that rules out any opinion i have on a good few Lynx commercial releases (No Tennis, golf, Hockey, volleyball or car racing titles please), last Chess game i played was on A8,Casino games,  Ishido+Shanghai are'nt me either, going to have a limited selection of genres, lol.


Oh meant to say in last post:Lynx Batman Returns was another case of great visuals, but crippled by a flaw, in this case the absurd difficulty level.

It's weird because I have heard people say its too easy as well as too hard!

I always thought it was fine, I can get to the last level but can't finish it.

On the Lynx those games are all bad for me:

Hard Drivin
Pitfighter
Dirty Larry
Robosquash
Kung Food
Shadow of the Beast
Pac-Land
Viking Child
Lynx Casino
Basketbrawl
Batman Returns
Bubble Trouble

And I haven't even played all available games yet, and I would not rate Cyberball or the Football and soccer games because they are not my cup of tea. Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, Fat Bobby Double Dragon, Electrocop and Steel Talons are not much more fun imo.

Then comes a lot of average or fairly good stuff with Rygar, Battlezone 2000, Switchblade II, Xybots, Dracula, Ninja Gaiden 1 & 3, Blue Lightning, Chip's Challenge and Paperboy being my favorites. But even there... Paperboy or Ninja Gaiden would probably not be on my top 10 list on the GG, the cream of the crop there is of a higher level to me.

What I love about the Lynx is how unique its games are, and how powerful the handheld is. But it's just no match to for the competition when it comes to official releases imo. I could just name so many more gems on the GG and GB...

And please, take no offense, I think such threads re dor discussion, and while I prefer the GG's and GB's official libraries, it is the Lynx that stole my heart with its unique flair.

Quote from: "The Laird"It's weird because I have heard people say its too easy as well as too hard!

I always thought it was fine, I can get to the last level but can't finish it.

Really, people calling it too easy? It's barely playable imo, the enemies come at you relentlessly. Such a shame because I'm a comic fan and the graphics are good. Yet again, on the GG there is an uglier, but much more fun version of Batman Returns and the also better Adventures of Batman & Robin.

Quote from: "108 Stars"And Ninja Gaiden is in my top 10 on the Lynx.^^

I'm with Rogue Trooper here, maybe the Lynx doesn't have a lot of total stinkers, but I would argue it doesn't have a lot of gems either. The Lynx library consists to me of mostly average or slightly above average games.

Definitely more real hits to be found on both Game Boy and Game Gear for me.  It's all a matter of opinion in the end of course, but I had never heard the argument about an especially positive good to bad ratio in discussions before I talked to you and read some of your magazine scans. I don't think that's a widely accepted fact, but a mere matter of taste.

But that's the thing with opinions, they differ greatly; you and I think Sega made good quality hardware, Rogue Trooper disagrees. I feel like the Jaguar is cheaply built, you disagree. Rogue Trooper thinks the 32X should not have been released, I think it should have been pushed even more. You don't like Reboot's games much, I do; but you like Blackout, which I don't think very highly of. I think you have a soft spot for Pit Fighter, which is an atrocity on any system it was released on in my eyes.
And on Atari Age I entered a shitstorm when I called Fight for Life one of the worst games ever made, which I wholeheartedly believe it is; but some people like it.
One thing you learn in the internet is that there is lots of opinions.

^^^^^^ Here is wisdom.

See 1 thing that drew me to the Lynx was Blue Lightning, just could'nt believe what i was seeing on a handheld and i personally love the game itself, but others find it very shallow.

Lemmings i prefer on G.G, Laird probably prefers the Lynx version.

The Lynx is a superb platform, if your looking for a few original games (in terms of real showcase titles) and after that are looking for conversions from arcade or 16 Bit micro, where as Game gear, it's blessing was also a curse, being so easy to port MS games to, it recived a lot of cut down versions of MD favs (Road Rash, Ecco, Sonic, SOR etc), as well as having it's own versions of of things like Shinobi as well as conversions from arcades etc, but thing is, it recived far more of them, so you had a wider range of titles to choose from in a genre, which matters to someone like myself, who'll love a genre, but hate the established titles, i.e:

Sandbox:i:ll take Scarface over GTA:S.A anyday, or Tomb Raider i'll pass ta, Uncharted/Soul Reaver? hell yes.turn Based:Advance wars? snore...warhammer 40,000 yes please.


I need the variety to pick and choose, with Lynx that selection was always limited.

Quote from: "The Laird"It's weird because I have heard people say its too easy as well as too hard!

I always thought it was fine, I can get to the last level but can't finish it.

I'm no stranger to hard games (finished demon's and Dark Souls this gen alone), but i found Lynx Batman returns hard as in far too frustrating to play, really soured the taste as game looked superb.

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"Lemmings i prefer on G.G, Laird probably prefers the Lynx version.

Most things I can understand, but not this! There is just nothing that is better about the Game Gear version.

Left Lynx, right GG:
(http://www7.pic-upload.de/16.05.13/f8tlua8bdxx2.png) (//http) (http://www10.pic-upload.de/16.05.13/sc27jjeprdd.png) (//http)

I did not play on GG for ages,  but my guess is:
Bigger screen, Lemmings stats always displayed and more vibrant colors may be reason to prefer the GG version.

Quote from: "108 Stars"On the Lynx those games are all bad for me:

Hard Drivin
Pitfighter
Dirty Larry
Robosquash
Kung Food
Shadow of the Beast
Pac-Land
Viking Child
Lynx Casino
Basketbrawl
Batman Returns
Bubble Trouble

And I haven't even played all available games yet, and I would not rate Cyberball or the Football and soccer games because they are not my cup of tea. Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, Fat Bobby Double Dragon, Electrocop and Steel Talons are not much more fun imo.

Then comes a lot of average or fairly good stuff with Rygar, Battlezone 2000, Switchblade II, Xybots, Dracula, Ninja Gaiden 1 & 3, Blue Lightning, Chip's Challenge and Paperboy being my favorites. But even there... Paperboy or Ninja Gaiden would probably not be on my top 10 list on the GG, the cream of the crop there is of a higher level to me.

What I love about the Lynx is how unique its games are, and how powerful the handheld is. But it's just no match to for the competition when it comes to official releases imo. I could just name so many more gems on the GG and GB...

And please, take no offense, I think such threads re dor discussion, and while I prefer the GG's and GB's official libraries, it is the Lynx that stole my heart with its unique flair.

Quote from: "The Laird"It's weird because I have heard people say its too easy as well as too hard!

I always thought it was fine, I can get to the last level but can't finish it.

Really, people calling it too easy? It's barely playable imo, the enemies come at you relentlessly. Such a shame because I'm a comic fan and the graphics are good. Yet again, on the GG there is an uglier, but much more fun version of Batman Returns and the also better Adventures of Batman & Robin.

From that list:

Never played:Robosquash/Bubble trouble/Fat Bobby/Viking Child (ST port i think?)

Kung Food looked great, was'nt all that.Battlezone i had, loved at the time, but then big fan of coin-op, but i know a lot who hated it.Pac Land, decent enough in arcade and on C64, as well as Lynx, SOTB-technically impressive on all formats i've seen (Amiga/ST/CPC/MS+Lynx) just devoid of anything special gameplay wise.Double Dragon was dated by time it hit Lynx, Rygar i love, Xybots+Electrocop i've only dabbled with.

see G.G has already thrown up a hidden gem in form of Arena, sadly starting to doubt i'll find such a gem on Lynx, just too few games left to try....

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"From that list:

Never played:Robosquash/Bubble trouble/Fat Bobby/Viking Child (ST port i think?)

Kung Food looked great, was'nt all that.Battlezone i had, loved at the time, but then big fan of coin-op, but i know a lot who hated it.Pac Land, decent enough in arcade and on C64, as well as Lynx, SOTB-technically impressive on all formats i've seen (Amiga/ST/CPC/MS+Lynx) just devoid of anything special gameplay wise.Double Dragon was dated by time it hit Lynx, Rygar i love, Xybots+Electrocop i've only dabbled with.

see G.G has already thrown up a hidden gem in form of Arena, sadly starting to doubt i'll find such a gem on Lynx, just too few games left to try....

My issue with SotB is that it offers even less than anything special gameplaywise, it is actually below average for its time when you take away the graphics. Extremely limited playability, lots of memorization.
Viking Child seems nice enough on screenshots, but it runs in slow motion. And I mean that it's less than 50% of the speed of an average jump' n run.
Double Dragon has this terribly zoomed in view that I hate; sprites are original arcade size, just that the Lynx screen is not 320x224 or whatever the arcade ws, but 160x102.
Robo-Squash: Well, it's f'in Squash.^^

Quote from: "108 Stars"Left Lynx, right GG:
(http://www7.pic-upload.de/16.05.13/f8tlua8bdxx2.png) (//http) (http://www10.pic-upload.de/16.05.13/sc27jjeprdd.png) (//http)

I did not play on GG for ages,  but my guess is:
Bigger screen, Lemmings stats always displayed and more vibrant colors may be reason to prefer the GG version.

Yep, Lynx version might be technically superior, but i just always prefer the stats on screen and did'nt get on with Lynx version having them on sep.screen.Again, personal choice thing.

Pity Lemmings 2 never got funded for Lynx though.

Lynx Shadow Of The Beast is not the same as the original Amiga game, its been changed quite a bit to give it more gameplay. Still has drop dead gorgeous gameplay though and fantastic music.

Double Dragon for me is the best conversion of the arcade machine on a home console, granted most of them are terrible, but personally think the zoomed in graphics worked really well and I like the added battle mode. I don't care how old it was when it came out, a good game will always be a good game.

Lemmings might have more "vibrant colours" on the GG but to me that just means it looks 8-bit, which it does. The Lynx version looks like the ST and Amiga originals more, sounds like them more too.

Robo Squash isn't much like real squash though, it's a cross between Breakout and Pong in 3D, it's an ok game but nothing very special. Has a few annoying flaws that don't help it.

Viking Child is an ST port yes, a good one IMO. I like it and I am not usually a fan of that genre. But then it is vry like Wonderboy In Monsterland, which I love. It's a bit slow but that never bothered me personally.

Anyway this thread is talking more about the Lynx than the Game Gear now!

Quote from: "The Laird"Lynx Shadow Of The Beast is not the same as the original Amiga game, its been changed quite a bit to give it more gameplay. Still has drop dead gorgeous gameplay though and fantastic music.

Double Dragon for me is the best conversion of the arcade machine on a home console, granted most of them are terrible, but personally think the zoomed in graphics worked really well and I like the added battle mode. I don't care how old it was when it came out, a good game will always be a good game.

Lemmings might have more "vibrant colours" on the GG but to me that just means it looks 8-bit, which it does. The Lynx version looks like the ST and Amiga originals more, sounds like them more too.

Robo Squash isn't much like real squash though, it's a cross between Breakout and Pong in 3D, it's an ok game but nothing very special. Has a few annoying flaws that don't help it.

Viking Child is an ST port yes, a good one IMO. I like it and I am not usually a fan of that genre. But then it is vry like Wonderboy In Monsterland, which I love. It's a bit slow but that never bothered me personally.

Anyway this thread is talking more about the Lynx than the Game Gear now!

Lemmings was never about the visuals though was it? so personally don't feel it had much to risk by being converted to any 8 Bit machine, other than number of...on screen at 1 time.

MS Shadow of The Beast had gameplay tweaks, attempt to make it deeper, still found it sorely lacking though, there just enough of a game beneath the engine.

Wonderboy:Dragon's trap was all time G.G fav of mine, mind you, quite liked the orig.Wonderboy

Quote from: "The Laird"Double Dragon for me is the best conversion of the arcade machine on a home console, granted most of them are terrible, but personally think the zoomed in graphics worked really well and I like the added battle mode. I don't care how old it was when it came out, a good game will always be a good game.

And that perspective makes it so bad to me.^^
Still better than the Atari 2600 or 7800 versions, but I much prefer it on MD, SMS and NES.

Quote from: "The Laird"Viking Child is an ST port yes, a good one IMO. I like it and I am not usually a fan of that genre. But then it is vry like Wonderboy In Monsterland, which I love. It's a bit slow but that never bothered me personally.

Now that I don't understand.^^ I originally trid VC because it had that Wonder Boy look, but comparing it to WB is like comparing Rise of the Robots to Street Fighter II imo.

That said, Dragon's Curse is one of the best GG games out there!

Quote from: "108 Stars"

Quote from: "The Laird"Double Dragon for me is the best conversion of the arcade machine on a home console, granted most of them are terrible, but personally think the zoomed in graphics worked really well and I like the added battle mode. I don't care how old it was when it came out, a good game will always be a good game.

And that perspective makes it so bad to me.^^
Still better than the Atari 2600 or 7800 versions, but I much prefer it on MD, SMS and NES.

Quote from: "The Laird"Viking Child is an ST port yes, a good one IMO. I like it and I am not usually a fan of that genre. But then it is vry like Wonderboy In Monsterland, which I love. It's a bit slow but that never bothered me personally.

Now that I don't understand.^^ I originally trid VC because it had that Wonder Boy look, but comparing it to WB is like comparing Rise of the Robots to Street Fighter II imo.

That said, Dragon's Curse is one of the best GG games out there!

Thing with Double dragon being dated, which it was by time it hit Lynx, better examples of the genre could be found on other systems, so hardly a system seller to many.Lynx really needed good few 'newer' coin-op's under it's belt to have the mass market appeal ATARI wanted from it.

I'll have to look into Viking Child.

Really? I still don't think there are that many beat 'em ups better than Double Dragon, it's a true classic.

Quote from: "The Laird"Really? I still don't think there are that many beat 'em ups better than Double Dragon, it's a true classic.

If we are talking the genre, then i'd much rather play:SOR 2, AVP, Final Fight, SOR, The Punisher Caddys And Dino's etc etc, but again, personal taste.

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"

Quote from: "The Laird"Really? I still don't think there are that many beat 'em ups better than Double Dragon, it's a true classic.

If we are talking the genre, then i'd much rather play:SOR 2, AVP, Final Fight, SOR, The Punisher Caddys And Dino's etc etc, but again, personal taste.

Of which half were not converted to a home console and of which most came out after DD was converted to the Lynx

Quote from: "The Laird"

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"

Quote from: "The Laird"Really? I still don't think there are that many beat 'em ups better than Double Dragon, it's a true classic.

If we are talking the genre, then i'd much rather play:SOR 2, AVP, Final Fight, SOR, The Punisher Caddys And Dino's etc etc, but again, personal taste.

Of which half were not converted to a home console and of which most came out after DD was converted to the Lynx

You did'nt specify a time period, just mentioned what to you was a true classic, so i kept my suggestions to within those lines.

Plus, as i mentioned, Lynx needed some newer coin-ops converted to it, D.D hit Lynx in 1993? D.D arcade game came out when? 1987? Home Micro's had conversions in '88, GB in 1990 MD in '92, so great as Lynx version is, it looked like yesterdays news, which was an issue ATARI faced as i mentioned earlier in this thread, fantastic to see classic arcade games converted, but it needed to be a mix of the classic and the new to stand level with GB+Game Gear.

:-) Besides, i've seen you call Streets Of Rage II the greatest Beat em Up Ever Made and that was a 92/93 release, lol.

Quote from: "The Laird"Yeah I don't get the criticism of Sega here either by RT, I even mentioned in my video how shocked I was that the GG was so badly built when the MD and SMS were so good. I have also never had a problem with either of my Saturns and thought that machine had a rep for reliability, especially compared to the PlayStation.

 Laird has already mentioned, but i'm  thinking the full story went along lines of: Dave Needle  had become friends with an engineer at SEGA and this led to him being hired by SEGA to help resolve issues which had cropped up in last stages of Game Gear R+D and when he visited the Japanese facility, it soon became clear SEGA had some major engineering issues going on, which basically stemned from them not fully understanding the hardware they were attempting to copy but i've never been sure how they could pull this off unless Epyx copyright's had flaws, after all SEGA had been shown the electronics and schematics of the system, was this not infringement?

Issues with colour output etc-to me that smacks of pretty poor design work from an engineering point of view (ex-engineer myself, mechanical, not electronics, but basic principles remain the same), if your going to try and replicate something someone else has done, at have a basic understanding of what does what, espically as they'd previousily shown you the guts of the system!

The MCD struggled as despite 2 CPU's, the data transfer between the 2 was poor, bottle neck for starters, SEGA should have realised this.

The CD drives used, might have been cheap, but they were designed as audio players and not meant to be constantly pulling data off in the manner a game required, again, this was'nt realised until too late.

The Saturn's dual CPU's 1 basically had to wait for other to finish doing what it was doing, again flawed design

The Dreamcast had poor heat removal, hence the prongs inside warping and the reset issue-solution was open case, push prongs back into contact.

So i stand by my comments on SEGA.

Quote from: "Rogue Trooper":-) Besides, i've seen you call Streets Of Rage II the greatest Beat em Up Ever Made and that was a 92/93 release, lol.

1992. And part 1, which was also way more advanced than DD was from 1991. The first two Final Fights had also been released on home consoles by the time DD hit the Lynx, as were DD 2 and 3. And the Turtles brawlers, great games and the MD one being the last at the same time DD came to Lynx.

I agree, this was part of the problem; beside for my taste the port not even being good (and that's disputable), DD was a retro game by 1993. Old news, much like Paperboy, Ms Pac-Man or Battlezone. A classic, but not a hot game anymore.

That said, Lynx DD was much better than the GG DD which is n entirely different game, focusing on Jimmy avenging the murder of Billy (or the other way around?)

i must check out Youtube, see if the SEGA ad (dog spots a GB and GG lying next to each other in the grass, wanders up, sniffs both, tail wagging, SEGA lay into GB screen 'Creamed Spinach Colour' as the audio mocks Tetris blocks falling down on the screen, followed by shot of the full colour GG screen and:

'If you were colourblind, you would'nt care what you bought.Then again, you would'nt care if you drank out of the toilet either'


Man, i miss advertising like this.

Unless my eyes were playing tricks I saw a Godzilla game. Really nice boxes. Tengen games always seems to stand out.

I always like these videos.  Helps you appreciate the artwork they made for the boxes.

Here is a video review from the guys at Game Sack looking at the Game Gear...