Atari 7800 eXpansion Module (XM)

[retromod]

here is the information taken from facebook

[retromod]

meanwhile the facebook and atariage thread were "censored" and flames deleted. Sadly to say that even Kierens entry were deleted.

[TrekMD]

Thanks for posting those screen grabs. 

[WiggyDiggyPoo]

Ah Facebook lol There's a reason I can count the people I friend on there in the low 40s lol

Good points Retromod about expansion modules, even the most successful are still viewed as being bad decisions e.g. MCD.

From a collecting POV it might be nice to have everything but where do you stop, there s loads of planned yet unreleased expansions for consoles we shouldn't aspire to build and buy them all, or is that what retro is about all of a sudden?

[retromod]

From a collecting POV it might be nice to have everything but where do you stop, there s loads of planned yet unreleased expansions for consoles we shouldn't aspire to build and buy them all, or is that what retro is about all of a sudden?

well retro means "past" not "future". So expanding an old system is not rocket science with modern components (in term of extending it's function by adding new one). Question is about audience. It make no sense adding a blitter chip to an Atari 7800 or to add additional graphic modes like the VBXE does. The VBXE is a RGB converter for 99% of it's users, nobody cares about the 10 demo applications using the new graphical features.

So an expansion not "improving" existing software like a "mod" does (pause, video signal, stereo etc.) makes not really sense. As it is cheaper and better using a state of the art console getting faster result and be ahead of time even if it is possible to add 1024x768 output mode, blitter chip and new graphic processor, increasing system frequency etc. on an 7800. If you do so you end up in a incompatible version without any software. There are plenty of projects which drive into that direction.

[Greyfox]

I think now personally with zero interest in this add-on but i think they have now severely affected the long term support for this device from customers without a doubt, the 7800 collective is a niche and small group hoping to have an expansion device sold to them as if it was brand new in today's tech, but is in a 4 year development limbo? I think that a lot of faith has been lost in them now, althought Curt can't be blamed because of the man's health, which is more important than some piece of hardware, but 4 years down the line, money paid in and no result? You can't blame the customers either? Its a vicious circle of events. And what is adding fuel to the blaze is that people are not receiving any information they are entitled to receive on it, understandable if there is nothing to update about etc. but curt has been seen online when he's supposed to be inactive due to his health, you can see why people are frowning to this?

I hope that it makes it and works out for both parties the customers and producers, but this will not be forgotten by a lot of people that will never take a risk or invest in something they make or not in the future. Best of luck to them and hope Curt gets well as soon as he can. They have an up hill struggle to climb because of this outcome, they may not feel it, but this scene has a nasty habit of biting you in the arse.

[WiggyDiggyPoo]

@retro I never mentioned mods, just expansion units.

My point was releasing a previously unreleased
 expansion module makes little sense other than from a collecting POV e.g. Building your own Adam expansion module (to original spec) for the Collecovision.

[retromod]

I hope that it makes it and works out for both parties the customers and producers, but this will not be forgotten by a lot of people that will never take a risk or invest in something they make or not in the future. Best of luck to them and hope Curt gets well as soon as he can. They have an up hill struggle to climb because of this outcome, they may not feel it, but this scene has a nasty habit of biting you in the arse.

well on AA it is your own risk to buy something. specially as you pay it as a gift there is no legal action to get money back at all. It's not about blaming more expectations yet (in this thread).

From product management it makes no sense at all as it is for a dying console (sorry for that but there is no new 7800 anymore and the user base does only decrease over time, kids are not interested at all). As there will be only a small run with 100 units the goal having a new "platform" is not reached as well. 100 is too less to develop anything further. For enthusiast it might be ok but a big problem is you split the (small) user base of 7800 fans again (xm and no xm). It's more like the Atari ST and Amiga desaster as people started to implement faster CPU's and firmware versions so rendering the platform incompatible with each other. That's the killing factor here. It was a good idea about 4 years ago but today it seems to make no sense.

there are 3 possibilities:
1. the XM will released as PD and people start to hack around splitting the user base more and more and more important canibalize the existing device base by hacks and mods to compete with features of modern consoles

or

2. the XM will see about 10 homebrews supporting them then resulting in a collector item and vanish in storage

or

3. there will be additional runs of production and the homebrew scene starts to move away from the original 7800 system founding their own fan base.

I doubt there will be a revive of the Atari 7800 system at all. The software titles for this console are quite limited. From all titles I would play only a hand of them (beside 2600 titles of course). So how often are you playing 7800 only titles?

As I have deep insides into sales statistics and market due to my partnership with a vendor I recognized the overall interests on 2nd/3rd generation consoles are declining since more than half a year. This is also reflected on ebay, discussion groups facebooks and amazon. The fan base aged and the grown up sega/nintendo generation just settled down and started to spent more money on their retro hobby. The offerings on 4th generation consoles increases from month to month. Websites with Sega/Nintendo content having a lot of entries per day.  During christmas the Sega/Nintendo sales were quite high in comparison to Atari/Coleco items. We sold a lot of Atari consoles but only due to new offerings and mods. Games and all accessories were nearly zero on the Atari front. It seems there is currently a change in retro "generation".

[64bitRuss]

Gee, sorry Curt and whoever this Marty guy is, for putting you in such a bind on asking for some progress to be made on a 4 year old project where nearly $20,000 was accepted in good faith by AA members. I pre-ordered 3 years ago, and still hope to get mine.

All I wanted from this project was more RAM, better audio and hi-score save. The problems with delays really started when some other guy wanted to turn the 7800 into a personal computer and demanded more features be added so he could make text adventures. And then the guy quit the project, after design changes were in progress! The truth is the 7800XM was ready years ago in this 'stripped down' version they are talking about releasing now.

[zapiy]

From a pure engineering point of view this is a work of art, as was alluded to already Curt has had health issues so I suspect that's knocked more wind out of his sails than he would have imagined. Given that time again I suspect he would be updating much more often to fend of this issue..

all I can say now is good luck and I hope it's completed soon..

[TrekMD]

Like I said, I'm happy if the XM just adds the POKEY, RAM, and high score features. The first two exist in Commando and Ballblazer and those games sound great.  The Yamaha chip would be bonus and still contemporary to the system.  I think the main goal was to have this hardware in one add-on to not need to use up chips from carts out there and that's a good enough goal.  Also, games can be programmed to look for a POKEY chip and can be made to work with TIA sound alone or a combination of TIA and POKEY without having to use extra memory. That would make games available to folks with and without the XM.  Beef Drop was programmed that way even before there was an XM being considered.

[TrekMD]

Retro Rogue has posted an update:

- The Yamaha section has been redesigned.

- The memory system has some issues, it's most likely a timing issue that needs to be ironed out.

- Once these are ironed out then the bus partitioning and control system can be fully tested and debugged.

Since there are several revisions of the 7800, if the XM is incompatible with any revision, the serial number(s) will need to be documented and see if there is a corresponding set of serials for a particular incompatible revision of the 7800 and a disclaimer will need to be presented so that anyone who owns that version won't purchase an XM for their system.

[retromod]

Retro Rogue has posted an update:

- The Yamaha section has been redesigned.

- The memory system has some issues, it's most likely a timing issue that needs to be ironed out.

- Once these are ironed out then the bus partitioning and control system can be fully tested and debugged.

Since there are several revisions of the 7800, if the XM is incompatible with any revision, the serial number(s) will need to be documented and see if there is a corresponding set of serials for a particular incompatible revision of the 7800 and a disclaimer will need to be presented so that anyone who owns that version won't purchase an XM for their system.

No it was marty himself updating on atarimuseum facebook page as aa page is not the info source for any news pn xm... Guess why. Later he posted as retro rogue...

[TrekMD]

Here is the latest update from Curt (posted at AA):

HI,

I see people selling or trading their pre-orders.   Just want those who do this to know that I will contact you when your order is next in queue to ship, if you've sold your XM pre-order, you'll just provide the name & address and email of that person its going to and they'll get an email with the tracking # and the order will ship to them.      I've been at the XM now steady every night addressing things and I have a major update to send to GroovyBee shortly for his review.    Still on track for THIS SPRING to release, no more delays, XM's ship this spring.

Again, those who want to buy one, I'm sure you'll see the buzz here and elsewhere as people get them, post about them and so forth.   I will make announcements of the general purchase date, I am hoping to also work with Albert to also make the XM's for sale directly on AA as well as my store so that people will have multiple places to buy.

Lets...keep the positive vibes going, I'm back and fully recovered and really jazzed about the XM's being finished and going out, thanks.

[zapiy]

What a decent guy.. good luck to him going forward..