Sega really milked Sonic and speaking personally, whilst the carts got bigger in terms of memory size, never found any Sonic quite as good as the very 1st installment.

Huh. Sorry to go off topic, but you mind if I ask why? Honestly, I thought the first Sonic was probably the worst of the original trilogy. (And still the worst if we're counting Sonic CD.) It's by no means a BAD game, to be sure, but it just doesn't feel nearly as polished as Sonic 2 or 3. Especially Marble Zone, which is almost so much of a slog to deal with it makes you want to quit playing the game entirely. That, and Sonic 2 and 3, in my opinion, did better at letting you explore, with the bigger levels and all.

2nd crack at this, 1st post got lost.

Whilst i could'nt fault Sonic 2 or 3, it was much like my feelings with Shinobi 3 and SOR 3:

Whilst Sega were getting more from the MD hardware resulting in better looking games, the 'impact' of Sonic (or SOR 2/Revenge Of Shinobi) just was'nt there.

Think 'we' all have grand ideas from what we expect from a sequel, sometimes they deliver above and beyond (Res.evil 2, Freelancer etc ), sometimes they crash and burn (DMC 2, Halo 2 etc).

Sega seemed very good at putting in new stuff, be it 2P mode, more sections, but a lot o the time once the novelty wore off, i was left wanting a lot more.

The sheer hype for Sonic 2, probably meant it'd NEVER live up to expectations if i'm honest, plus Sonic really did knock my socks off when i 1st played it, guess i wanted later Sonics to do the same.

SOR 3 was a good game, just not a patch on SOR 2.

I think Shinobi 3 is brilliant though - my personal favourite of the series on the MD.

Personally I think the winds of change were coming long before the PS1 came out. EA was already doing it's yearly sports titles, Capcom was already doing Street Fighter update after update, and Sega was putting Sonic in any game they could.  Also doesn't anybody remember how stale the last couple years of the 16 bit gen was? Every other game was a side scrolling platformer that was very similar to the last one. The playstation brought some much needed variety in games. Yes I will agree they changed the industry from a niche hobby to the state it's in now but if they hadn't done it somebody else would have. If the PS1 was never released Panasonic would have released the 3DO successor M2 and had it taken off  today everyone could be claiming they killed the industry. I really believe the end result would have been the same, maybe just would have taken a couple more years is all.

Personally I think the winds of change were coming long before the PS1 came out. EA was already doing it's yearly sports titles, Capcom was already doing Street Fighter update after update, and Sega was putting Sonic in any game they could.  Also doesn't anybody remember how stale the last couple years of the 16 bit gen was? Every other game was a side scrolling platformer that was very similar to the last one. The playstation brought some much needed variety in games. Yes I will agree they changed the industry from a niche hobby to the state it's in now but if they hadn't done it somebody else would have. If the PS1 was never released Panasonic would have released the 3DO successor M2 and had it taken off  today everyone could be claiming they killed the industry. I really believe the end result would have been the same, maybe just would have taken a couple more years is all.

Very good post.I can recal E.A doing Fifa and Ice Hockey updates on the MD, 3DO Road Rash was follow on to 3 MD games and they even then got another game from it, on the MCD, porting 3DO main sprite and games music to the MCD game, so they were going to continue this practice on 3DO, Saturn and onwards, Playstation was just another platform.

They were already updating older franchises or at least publishing new instalments of...Road Rash, Fifa, Syndicate Wars, Fade To Black (follow up to Flashback), Starfighter 3000, Return Fire follow upto Amiga Firepower, new Space Hulk.

Looking at the FAKE M2 tech Demos.what did we see? Another Racing game, Another beat-em-up (Chick Vs Dino0 etc.As for games? well Iron+Blood appeared on PS1 but started off on M2, D2 was originally M2, but moved to DC.

To think developers were'nt trying things out on PS1 as it was mass media, really does sound odd when you see things like:

Depth, The Aquanaut's Holiday, Wild, Pure, Simple Life (a caveman sim, in 3D).

As for hating a company?

Should i 'hate' MS for allowing patches to appear on console games? (Far Cry on Xbox) and claiming it'd be a 1-off? (look at it now, day 1 patches the norm) or being the 1st to charge for DLC on console?

Should i hate SEGA, for pushing Virta Fighter to a wider audience with:VF KIDS (Arcade+Saturn), VF2 (MD), or VF Mini on Game Gear?.

Yeah I really tried hating Microsoft at first but in the end the Xbox got games that weren't on the PS2 so I sucked it up and bought one. Like you I go where the games are. Simple as that.

🙂

If it's the amount of sequels that put folk off Sony platforms,  i have to ask:

Just how is The Neo-Geo viewed then?

Samurai Showdown series
King Of The Fighters Series
World Heroes Series
Metal Slug Series
Fatal Fury Series
Art Of Fighting series.

System's origins meant it was never going to see a lot of variety but it's a class system.

Ohh, wait, least i forget, Chiptune already answere this question, ALL it's games were shit.

Personally I think the winds of change were coming long before the PS1 came out. EA was already doing it's yearly sports titles, Capcom was already doing Street Fighter update after update, and Sega was putting Sonic in any game they could.  Also doesn't anybody remember how stale the last couple years of the 16 bit gen was? Every other game was a side scrolling platformer that was very similar to the last one. The playstation brought some much needed variety in games. Yes I will agree they changed the industry from a niche hobby to the state it's in now but if they hadn't done it somebody else would have. If the PS1 was never released Panasonic would have released the 3DO successor M2 and had it taken off  today everyone could be claiming they killed the industry. I really believe the end result would have been the same, maybe just would have taken a couple more years is all.

Auctually, thinking on it, the M2 was  things Sony did, with PS2, yet a good while before it.

Hyped up tech.specs:Sony had Emotion Engine, 75 Million Polys per sec.

M2:Claimed it had 10X the power of the N64, alsmost on par with Sega's Model 3 Coin-Op hardware-in reality, Warp etc put it around 2-3X the power of the N64, powerful hardware for the time, yes, but not the uber-powerhouse they claimed.

Faked game footage, yes on BOTH platforms.

Key games little more than sequels? Sonys well known (More:wipeout/Syphon Filter/MGS etc).

Yet of known planned M2 games we see:

Clayfighter 3 (hardly a killer app)

Distruptor:yes, the early PS1 FPS, but souped up-think 10X the polygon count and full 3D characters, but still a PS1 FPS underneath.

So, lets assume PS1 never happened:We'd be in a world where sega's Saturn has fullfilled it's design purpose (i.e it's a 3DO beater), The Jaguar? guessing it'd still be released at same point, with same crippling flaws in it's hardware and tools, CD32, CD-i situation would be the same (would 32X still have been released? i feel answer is YES), so M2 gets released as a Saturn/N64 beater.

Software would initally comprise of what? D2 (sequel to a then Saturn only title), Iron+Blood (M2's VF2?), Clayfighter 3, a nice looking FS by name of Distrupor (but gameplay wise doubt it'd challenge say Perfect Dark or Goldeneye on N64).

Atari would probably have gone on to launch Jaguar MK 2, giving a lot of talk about how only it was the most powerful, true 64 Bit system, but after seeing what became of the Jaguar MK1, no-one took them seriousily anymore.....

Sega responds by saying it's started work on it's Next Gen home console and it'll be based around Model 3 hardware, far more powerful than M2 etc...and cycle continues.

Names change, policies don't.

Ohh, wait, least i forget, Chiptune already answere this question, ALL it's games were shit.

Not big on fighting games, I take it?

no one is saying that Sony STARTED the whole franchise milking, no one said that AT ALL... what I personally was saying was that the playstation generation, for WHATEVER reason, was the start of a major change in the industry. Whether you attribute that to franchise popularity or marketing is up to you

Yes, if the Saturn had been more popular than the Playstation then it may have been Sega rather than Sony that we now frown upon for the current state of affairs but the plain fact of the matter is that it WASN'T Sega, it was Sony, and as I said in my post, they saw the success of the Playstation 1 and took the idea to the next level with the PS2 to the point where the masses were UTTERLY fooled into buying a shit product that was basically a massive PR phenomenon but had no actual QUALITY. It was PURELY released to milk franchises, Tekken, Gran Turismo, Tomb Raider, etc etc ad infinitum to line their pockets and it worked a treat, thus turning the video game industry model into a financially driven one built around easy repeatable franchise games using the same tech with little or no work involved and maximum profit expected

I also agree with Tom that the original Playstation definitely benefited heavily from the franchises that it popularised, no one is saying those franchises all STARTED there, but the Playstation made them popular and as a result the financial benefit was exponential.

I'm sure had Sega's Saturn won the 32bit battle we wouldn't be in a much better situation, unfortunately no one cares about what might of been in this instance, only what WAS, and what WAS; Sony, with the help of Activision, EA and Ubisoft, turned the video game industry into a bloated festering cash cow built on dumbing down the masses with rehashed, reused game franchises that were tweaked and made using the same engine and mechanics etc resulting in minimal cost but maximum profit

Franchises on the older systems such as Sonic and Megaman had real replayability because they required repetition and SKILL... the modern game simply does not require that when you can simply load from a save point and not get penalised.

The quick save seemed to stem from the PC area and i totally agree, it took away any skill to games playing, in fact i'd go further and say it destroyed a lot of tension in games, you did'nt fear dying as 'thanks' to quick save, you were just a button press away from reappearing where you were say 10 seconds ago.

Dunno IF you read my questions to Rebellion, but i asked what they thought of PC GAME reviewers at the time, slagging Rebellion of for only giving 1 save per game in the original PC AVP.

Reviewers said it made the game far too hard (So Rebellion changed it with AVP:Gold and i think patched the original), which for myself, totally went again'st what Rebellion were clearly setting out to achieve.

By playing as the marine, you really did feel death was just a heart beat away, you approached the game in a far different manner to that of a std FPS as you were taking your life in your hands.

Far more recently on this gen:Bioshock-I'd quite happily die at certain stages of the game, knowing a respawn chamber was less than a min.back and i'd be re-born with full health and powers etc, thus far better set up to take on the hordes ahead.Entire game felt so removed from say System Shock 2 in terms of tension+atmosphere.S.S 2 i regard as an all time classic, Bioshock i don't.

Regarding the industry:By time CD arrived, it seemed the interactive movie was to be 'The Next Big Thing' magazines like ACE etc running cover features on Play The Film, it seemed industry viewed this as the Holy Grail, once that was found to be a dead duck, they went looking for the next way to tap into the mainstream market, guess making it 'cool' was seen as the way forward.

CD/32 Bit Era seemed to be the start of when in-game advertising(static and dynamic in game ads) really kicked off as well (another bane to gaming), i know we'd seen Lucozade, Chuppa Chups, Penguin Biscuits, Chewits etc in 8/16 Bit games before, but with Wipeout, Ghost In The Shell etc there were billboards for Red Bull, videoscreens etc, Return Fire on 3DO had a Do It For real type ad.from the US Army, by the time i picked up Crazy Taxi on DC, the people i picked up wanted to be taken to Pizza Hut, KFC, The Levi Store etc.Might have made the  enviroment feel more real, but for myself, destroyed a lot of the feeling of escapism.

Marketing boys and girls  seeing rich potential to get the message to new auidance, recent Splinter Cell games, ohh my god, Sam needs his brand of breath gum and certain model of Mobile Phone to keep the country safe, Wipeout HD had ads on the loading stage (which Sony had to remove as it pissed us gamers right off) etc.

As soon as game sales started to over take say cinema ticket sales or DVD, music CD sales, marketing jumped right on board and the industry took a whole new direction.

Finally have time to write another post but DCultrapro has already summed up my opinions on PS1 perfectly.

But, also wanted to comment that there were plenty of great, creative, original titles on the PS1. I own about 200 PS1 games and two consoles... wore out the laser in my launch day system. Looking at the bigger picture though, only a few of my favorites are on the top selling games list. The masses accepted the modern gaming model and PS1 just happened to be the leading platform during the transition.

Like AmigaJay mentioned, I think the biggest blessing of the current gen is the variety of games available on PSN, Wiiware, and xbl. Massive audience for small development teams to take chances on new game ideas. Net Yaroze evolved. Creativity returns!

oh yeah definitely, on the PS1 I had some games that I loved to bits:

Armored Core
Evil Zone
Tai Fu
Wild 9
Metal Gear Solid
Ghost In The Shell
WCW Vs The World
Final Fantasy 8

I'll try and think of some others but none spring to mind at the moment.

Finally have time to write another post but DCultrapro has already summed up my opinions on PS1 perfectly.

But, also wanted to comment that there were plenty of great, creative, original titles on the PS1. I own about 200 PS1 games and two consoles... wore out the laser in my launch day system. Looking at the bigger picture though, only a few of my favorites are on the top selling games list. The masses accepted the modern gaming model and PS1 just happened to be the leading platform during the transition.

Like AmigaJay mentioned, I think the biggest blessing of the current gen is the variety of games available on PSN, Wiiware, and xbl. Massive audience for small development teams to take chances on new game ideas. Net Yaroze evolved. Creativity returns!

Yep, tools like MS's XNA helped a lot, believe likes of Fez, the Dishwater games (Vampire Smile+Dead Samurai), Flotilla etc used it

Also believe Ex-Psygnosis (Sony Liverpool) just set up their own small studio, despite being offered positions in far bigger development teams, they've decided to go it alone.

Hope to see the fruits of their labours soon.

Seeing the rise of video games in the 1970's and 1980's leads me to believe the creativity ended when the field narrowed to only three main console makers.

It has been pointed out very well that the Playstation had to compete against the CD-i, 3DO, Genesis, Jaguar, Neo Geo, Super Nintendo and the Sega Saturn. You could also argue for the  GameBoy, GameGear, Lynx and Sega 32X.

They were all fighting for a share of the profits.

Once Sony won it seems the flow of new and exciting games dropped of the cliff.

Maybe OUYA will change that?

I think much caution needs to be exercised when appraising the Net Yaroze in terms of how much credit Sony deserve for it.

Going from memory (w/o checking Wiki!) Sony charged a small fortune for the setup. Hardly the altruistic action of a company willing to genuinely embrace the creativity of the public.

Secondly, Net Yaroze PS games were gimped from the outset by Sony's decision to limit their size to a tiny amount of memory. The upshot being that games could only ever hope to be extemely simplistic realtive to commercial games. Hardly the altruistic action of a company willing to genuinely embrace the creativity of the public.

Thirdly, Sony not long ago wiped all Net Yaroze PS games (that were available for people to access) from their servers. Without any advance warning either, afaik.
Hardly the altruistic action of a company willing to genuinely embrace the creativity of the public.

In summary, Net Yaroze was a quirky piece of expensively priced kit for budding coders to mess about with. Maybe it inspired some to realise a career in the games industry, I don't know. To credit Sony with much more than that though is perhaps a little misguided. As far as I remember it, Sony used Net Yaroze primarily as a marketing tool to help add to the 'cool' image they were so keenly fostering for the PlayStation brand.