The Sega Master System Discussion Thread

[TrekMD]

[align=center:3km45kvb][/align:3km45kvb]

Here's another retro system that needs little in terms of introduction, the Sega Master System.  RVG currently does not have a review section for games for the system, so if anyone out there is interested in writing reviews for the console, let us know.    This thread, however, is to discuss the console itself. 

To get the discussion started, I'm going to post the video review from Classic Game Room for the SMS.  Have a view and see what you think.  So, is this truly the Master System? 


[align=center:3km45kvb]Classic Game Room reviews SEGA MASTER SYSTEM controller[/align:3km45kvb]

[64bitRuss]

I used to play Wonder Boy In Monster Land all the time, I was completely addicted to it for a couple months. I also loved Psycho Fox, Spellcaster and Time Soldiers.

If I had a complaint, it would be those stupid Sega Card games. I don't think I ever played a good one of those. And really, what a bunch of nonsense to have purposely worse games. They just seemed like a complete waste of time and a marketing failure, I mean who came up with that idea?

[Crusto]

I loved my SMS back in the day. It was a far superior machine to the NES and deserved to do better in other countries such as the US. They really missed out on it. I spent hours and hours on games such as Wonderboy 3, Zillion, Rocky, Y's, Phantasy Star, Kung Fu Kid, Black Belt etc. It's conversion of R-Type was very impressive too.

[DreamcastRIP]

If I had a complaint, it would be those stupid Sega Card games. I don't think I ever played a good one of those. And really, what a bunch of nonsense to have purposely worse games. They just seemed like a complete waste of time and a marketing failure, I mean who came up with that idea?

Were the card-based SMS games a complete marketing failure though? I don't know the answer to that question, hence why I'm asking, btw.

The SMS launched in a European games industry almost totally dominated by the 8-bit home computers of the time, e.g. ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, etc. Games for those computers were massively cheaper to buy than games for games consoles. So Sega having launched an 8-bit console in Europe when they did that also offered games on cards for a price significantly below that of its cartridge-based games may possibly have played a role in helping persuade a good many 8-bit computer owners to buy the console.

Yes, I'm aware that Sega removed the Sega Card slot with the release of the Master System II. Maybe by the time that revised hardware was released Sega felt that consumers in Europe and Oceania (where the SMS wiped the floor with the NES) had adapted to being willing to pay more for games. Or maybe by that time people were more accepting of the fact that they needed to spend the extra on SMS cartiridge-based games if they wanted the best games, i.e. the feature's withdrawal wasn't due to it having been a marketing failure but that it no longer was as necessary as it once had been.

To put what I'm saying in more practical terms, as a then teenaged Speccy owner used to paying between £1.99 to £9.99 for games I recall walking into Boots and laughing at the relatively obscene prices Nintendo were asking for NES games but being less appalled by the prices Sega were asking for card-based SMS games. I don't imagine I was the only one who had such a reaction at the time and I therefore imagine that Sega's console having some lower priced games proved a successful tool in helping market the console to a generation of fellow 8-bit computer owners who were by then looking to move on to another games system.

[dougtitchmarsh]

The SMS is one of my favourite consoles, and brings back some great memories. I played my cousins Master System and then had to go straight out and get one. Alex Kidd in Miracle World was quickly followed by Sonic 1. There was a games shop near Chessington which was externally painted like the Sega boxes with the blue on white lines, and they carried loads of Sega games and it became a regular haunt of mine anytime I was working around that area or passing it.
Loads of great games on the SMS, Lucky Dime Caper, The Ninja, Enduro Racer, Operation Wolf with the light Phaser and also Gangster Town and Laser Ghost.

[TL]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head DC, the SMS card games were only £9.99 - thus making them cost the same as a full price Speccy or C64 game. This made the SMS seem much more affordable than the NES and more in line with the price range of 16-bit computers (£9.99 budget/£19.99-£24.99) full price.

I had friends with Master Systems when I was younger but it never really appealed to me that much, sure it was better than the NES but was still overshadowed by the 16-bit computers. I have learned to appreciate it a little bit more these days as I wrote the SMS section for Homebrew Heroes and played a lot of SMS games in the process. I actually just bought a Power Base converter for my Mega Drive so I could pick up a few of the SMS games I really enjoy such as Choplifter, Master Of Darkness, Zillon 1&2 and Enduro Racer.

[DreamcastRIP]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head DC, the SMS card games were only £9.99 - thus making them cost the same as a full price Speccy or C64 game. This made the SMS seem much more affordable than the NES...

When typing my previous post I couldn't remember the price of SMS card-based games so cheers for that.

So instant-loading console games for the same price as full price cassette-based Speccy/C-64/CPC games. That must have been a huge factor in helping convince legions of European gamers to,

* 'upgrade' to an SMS from their Speccy/C-64/CPC
* buy an SMS in preference to a NES

I know delusional Nintendo fans like to believe that the only reason for why Sega's Master System sold so well in Europe and Oceania was because Ninty didn't take those territories seriously - heck, we've seen that myth peddled yet again to some extent in this very month's Retro Gamer magazine.

Fact is, there was much that Sega did with the Master System that was right and all credit is due to them (plus their (then) regional distribtors such as Mastertronic in the UK, Ariolasoft in Germany, etc) for what they achieved by wiping the floor with the supposedly all-conquering NES in those territories plus Tectoy's notable success with licensed Master Systems and games in South America.

[Rogue Trooper]

I used to play Wonder Boy In Monster Land all the time, I was completely addicted to it for a couple months. I also loved Psycho Fox, Spellcaster and Time Soldiers.

If I had a complaint, it would be those stupid Sega Card games. I don't think I ever played a good one of those. And really, what a bunch of nonsense to have purposely worse games. They just seemed like a complete waste of time and a marketing failure, I mean who came up with that idea?

I'd have to have a rummage, but seem to recal The Games Machine here in UK, did a feature on these 'smart cards' that were taking Japan by storm and how various games companies were looking into using them as they were cheap to produce, needed less packaging etc.

As well as Sega did'nt the MSX and NEC TurboGraphx-16 use some form of Rom cards for games to a degree?

Think Sega soon gave up on them due to games requiring lot more memory than you could fit on a Rom card.What was there, all of 12 games released on Rom card on MS?

[TL]

The PC Engine/TurboGrafx uses ROM cards (or HuCards as they are called) and the Atari Lynx also uses ROM cards as standard too. Quite funny seen as they are both custom 8/16-bit hybrid systems based on a 6502 CPU.

The Cheetah/Bit Corp. Gamate also used ROM Cards as a storage medium.

I know there were cartridge games for the MSX but I don't know about card games.

The Sega SG-1000 (the predecessor to the SMS) also had the option of using card games too. There is a complete list of card games for both the SG-1000 and SMS here: http://segaretro.org/Sega_Card

[64bitRuss]

I always assumed that it was the large arcade culture in the US that led to the NES prevailing over the SMS here. I wanted an NES because I was playing Super Mario Bros and Excitebike on the .vs arcade machines. I didn't really know much about the SMS, as I don't recall it being heavily advertised.

It is curious to me why the SMS is so popular in the UK and Europe. I'm of the opinion, through experience, that back in those days, and through the 1990's, arcades played a huge role influencing the direction of home console markets. Having never been to the UK or Europe, I have no clue how large the arcade 'culture' was in those places. I can tell you that here in America, you couldn't go to a shopping plaza and not have an arcade. I grew up in a town of 20,000 people, and I had 4 different large arcades I could ride my bicycle to 7 days a week. One was walking distance from my home, a 10 minute walk down the street. Arcades were absolutely everywhere. Even a machine or two at every gas station and convenience store. Those Nintendo .vs cabinets were widespread here. I think that has to be a major factor over the NES dominance in the USA.

[Rogue Trooper]

As a UK magazine buyer for as long as i can remember, it's been galling these past few years to read the same lines, printed as fact, when it comes to the MS compared to the Nes....


That the MS could'nt match the Nes in terms of quality software:Ohh right so it's not as if the likes of:Prince Of Persia, The Terminator (better than the MD cart.version!), Phantasty Star, the Zillion series, Sonic, Spiderman, Fantasy Zone, Impossible Mission, Bubble Bobble, Galaxy Force, Gauntlet, Rocky, Master Of Darkness, Wonderboy III, R-Type, Rampage, Op.Wolf, Rambo 3, Powerstrike, Fire And Forget II etc etc were anything to shout about, eh media?

The Joe Public in UK ignored the MS as we were all sat here, dicks in our hands eagerly awaiting the Nes to arrive to save us and industry or give those poor souls who'd previousily never touched a video game, thier 1st taste...

And had Nintendo really put effort into Europe things would have been even better for the Nes over here, MS would have been destroyed overnight...hello? Nintendo had 2 cracks at Europe 1st with Mattel, then handling it themselves.

Surely Sega deserve credit along with their European counterparts in terms of software houses, for what they did achieve with such a superb little system.

The soundchip i hated, but the MD to MS conversions often had my jaw dropping in what was achieved, so great to see a dedicated thread to the underdog here at a time i seem to be drowning in Nes related stuff in the publications i buy.

[TL]

It is funny you say that Russ because one of the key reasons the SMS did so well in the UK especially was the arcade culture!!!!

People here wanted to play arcade games in the home and the SMS offered that with games like Shinobi, Altered Beast, Space Harrier, Outrun, Chase HQ, Choplifter, Rampage, R-Type and the list goes on.

While most of the "arcade games" on the NES were completely different the games you actually played in the arcade. Titles like Strider, Bionic Commando, Ninja Gaiden, Rygar, Adventure Island, Toki, Temple Of Doom, Dragon's Lair, Skull & Crossbones and the Double Dragon games are very different to their arcade counterparts.

We had a few of those Vs. Playchoice cabinets over here but people knew they were just a NES in a arcade cabinet with timed play so saw them as a complete rip-off when put next to far superior real arcade games. Arcades were everywhere too and if we were going to pay £30 for a game we wanted it to be just like the one we played in the arcades and not some bland generic platformer with the same name.

[Rogue Trooper]

I always assumed that it was the large arcade culture in the US that led to the NES prevailing over the SMS here. I wanted an NES because I was playing Super Mario Bros and Excitebike on the .vs arcade machines. I didn't really know much about the SMS, as I don't recall it being heavily advertised.

It is curious to me why the SMS is so popular in the UK and Europe. I'm of the opinion, through experience, that back in those days, and through the 1990's, arcades played a huge role influencing the direction of home console markets. Having never been to the UK or Europe, I have no clue how large the arcade 'culture' was in those places. I can tell you that here in America, you couldn't go to a shopping plaza and not have an arcade. I grew up in a town of 20,000 people, and I had 4 different large arcades I could ride my bicycle to 7 days a week. One was walking distance from my home, a 10 minute walk down the street. Arcades were absolutely everywhere. Even a machine or two at every gas station and convenience store. Those Nintendo .vs cabinets were widespread here. I think that has to be a major factor over the NES dominance in the USA.

From personal exp.Sega were the arcade name over here for a lot of us.The likes of Out Run, Space Harrier, Enduro Racer etc were huge.We had to put up with some very mixed results in terms of home conversions to the 8 Bit micro's etc, but you could'nt seem to move in magazines for huge adverts for conversions of The Latest Sega Arcade smash!!Thunderblade, Afterburner+Outrun being the biggies, with Space Harrier, Alien Syndrome+Power Drift happily bobbing along.

Plus never under estimate the impact Sonic had over here, at the time? everywhere, real major event at the time.

[Rogue Trooper]

The PC Engine/TurboGrafx uses ROM cards (or HuCards as they are called) and the Atari Lynx also uses ROM cards as standard too. Quite funny seen as they are both custom 8/16-bit hybrid systems based on a 6502 CPU.

The Cheetah/Bit Corp. Gamate also used ROM Cards as a storage medium.

I know there were cartridge games for the MSX but I don't know about card games.

The Sega SG-1000 (the predecessor to the SMS) also had the option of using card games too. There is a complete list of card games for both the SG-1000 and SMS here: http://segaretro.org/Sega_Card

Guess with something like the Gamemate, cards would have been ideal, cheap, your not looking at epic sized games etc.On systems like the Lynx though, how 'big' did the cart sizes go? seem to recal some issues concerning Lynx Eye Of The Beholder (which never came out, did it?) needing a big cart.

Did technology increases allow for 'bigger' cards without incurring bigger production costs in later years?.

[Rogue Trooper]

It is funny you say that Russ because one of the key reasons the SMS did so well in the UK especially was the arcade culture!!!!

People here wanted to play arcade games in the home and the SMS offered that with games like Shinobi, Altered Beast, Space Harrier, Outrun, Chase HQ, Choplifter, Rampage, R-Type and the list goes on.

While most of the "arcade games" on the NES were completely different the games you actually played in the arcade. Titles like Strider, Bionic Commando, Ninja Gaiden, Rygar, Adventure Island, Toki, Temple Of Doom, Dragon's Lair, Skull & Crossbones and the Double Dragon games are very different to their arcade counterparts.

We had a few of those Vs. Playchoice cabinets over here but people knew they were just a NES in a arcade cabinet with timed play so saw them as a complete rip-off when put next to far superior real arcade games. Arcades were everywhere too and if we were going to pay £30 for a game we wanted it to be just like the one we played in the arcades and not some bland generic platformer with the same name.

Re:The Playchoice games:I can always remember the look of utter dissapoint on friends and strangers faces when they discovered it was nothing more than a Nes powering it, not some cutting edge coin-op board.I never saw anyone showing much interest in them, they just seemed to turn up in various bars and sat untouched.