Author Topic: The Atari Panther  (Read 12004 times)

Offline Cryptic33

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2013, 12:23:09 PM »
Quote from: "TrekMD"
[align=center:jdb9uyz2][/align:jdb9uyz2]
For the record, Alien verses Predator on the Atari Jaguar holds a Guinness World Record!



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Offline TL

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2013, 22:47:44 PM »

Offline DreamcastRIP

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2013, 00:22:59 AM »
Quote from: "The Laird"
tidbits

Yikes, you're turning into a Yank! :24:
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Offline TL

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2013, 11:37:30 AM »
Talking with Darryl Still this week, who saw a great deal of the Panther and what was being done with it, and he had some interesting info.

He apparently wanted to go with Panther and was pretty miffed when it was canned by the folk in America. He felt that they could have had a killer line up on it just based on the Amiga & ST devs who were interested in it. By getting people on board with the Panther he feels the Jaguar would have had a much better chance.

With regards to the quoted 32k of memory which does sound far too low, I am doubtful they would have shipped with this, although this is all the memory the initial dev units had. But remember these were to be hooked up to other equipment and I read that many of the Konix dev units only had 128k on the board but the unit was going to ship with 256k. With the Panther being a cartridge console it would have also have been very easy to add RAM onto the cartridges (something commonly done with both the NES and SNES) or add an actual RAM cartridge as a pass through (like was planned for the 7800 or the one for the Saturn).

Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2013, 13:27:52 PM »
Quote from: "The Laird"
Talking with Darryl Still this week, who saw a great deal of the Panther and what was being done with it, and he had some interesting info.

He apparently wanted to go with Panther and was pretty miffed when it was canned by the folk in America. He felt that they could have had a killer line up on it just based on the Amiga & ST devs who were interested in it. By getting people on board with the Panther he feels the Jaguar would have had a much better chance.

With regards to the quoted 32k of memory which does sound far too low, I am doubtful they would have shipped with this, although this is all the memory the initial dev units had. But remember these were to be hooked up to other equipment and I read that many of the Konix dev units only had 128k on the board but the unit was going to ship with 256k. With the Panther being a cartridge console it would have also have been very easy to add RAM onto the cartridges (something commonly done with both the NES and SNES) or add an actual RAM cartridge as a pass through (like was planned for the 7800 or the one for the Saturn).

Unless they had likes of:E.a, Konami, Capcom etc on board, could'nt see it doing the buisness myself.Harsh, but Atari would never have the level of support needed.Great as say support from Ocean, US Gold, Virgin, Psygnosis etc might have been, it would simply not have had the much needed 'clout' to ensure Panther was a global player.

Dev.kits tend to have more memory than final hardware and beefing up the final Ram for final hardware has been done 'recently' with Vita, but more often than not, things are downgraded for cost cutting measures:Original Xbox had specs cut down, Kinect had camera down graded and on board CPU removed.

Putting the extras on cart? just pushes up costs, be it extra Ram, DSP chips etc etc.Given ATARI's history of cost cutting measures the last thing i could see them doing was increasing the Panthers Ram or putting extra Ram on carts.

If you go the plug through method, what are coders going to do? put resources in to make use of the extra memory for the small % who bought Ram carts or code for base units?.Only to look at how lot of Xbox games ignored fact machine had a HDD as standard and thus had PS2 loading times, or ATARI 800 XL or XE range games that ran in 48K, let alone 64K or 128K, not having HDD as standard on 360 this gen caused issues.

Unless ATARI upped Ram on hardware, Panther would have been crippled, developers no doubt either moved on or not been impressed enough to bother with it.why would they spend time and money trying to work within the confines of an ATARI console, when the huge user bases of the SNES and MD lay open?.

ATARI had pissed off way too many publishers and punters to suddenly have the backing the way SEGA and Nintendo did.

Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2013, 13:39:33 PM »
Thing is, on paper, the Konix sounded fantastic, so did the Panther, but then so did the Jaguar, the PS2 etc.It's only when coders get to grips with final hardware that the reality becomes apparent, things like pixel animation speed, polygon rendering, screen resolution etc etc that all had gob-smacking performance claims in P.R releases are shown to be worthless in terms of gaming performance.

There is'nt enough Ram where it's needed, or CPU power has to be given to things like sound channels or those polygons? were all same size, untextured, no lighting.Those sprites only relates to hardware doing nothing but pushing sprites and even then it's not as was claimed.

At the end of the day the hardware has to be sold as low as possible, so corners will be cut, then you get into political areas like in house teams wanting to keep best coding routines to themselves, rather than sharing with 3rd parties.Seen it with Sega, seen it with Sony, seen it with Nintendo, compare Ultra 64 specs with actual N64 specs, let alone actual in-game performance.

Seen enough hardware over the years to realise the vast gulf between on-paper claims and meaningless 'tech demo's', be it duckies in a bath to Llama's and wilderbeasts leaping about...names and demo's change, reality stays as it is.

Offline TL

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2013, 13:39:58 PM »
Well all I can say is look at the European support for the Master System, that was what helped make that console a huge success in Europe, Australasia and South America. I see the Panther a bit like that as this is where the main support would have come from. Would the console have beat Sega or Nintendo? NO! But could it have been a viable 3rd place console in territories where there was no PC Engine as an alternative? I say yes. Considering how great the output was at that time from European software houses on the ST I am sure the Panther would have certainly done far better games wise than the Jaguar did. Atari had already confirmed the likes of Domark, US Gold, Ocean, Psygnosis, Thalion, Rainbow Arts and Gremlin had signed up to develop games for it.

Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2013, 13:49:22 PM »
Quote from: "The Laird"
Well all I can say is look at the European support for the Master System, that was what helped make that console a huge success in Europe, Australasia and South America. I see the Panther a bit like that as this is where the main support would have come from. Would the console have beat Sega or Nintendo? NO! But could it have been a viable 3rd place console in territories where there was no PC Engine as an alternative? I say yes. Considering how great the output was at that time from European software houses on the ST I am sure the Panther would have certainly done far better games wise than the Jaguar did. Atari had already confirmed the likes of Domark, US Gold, Ocean, Psygnosis, Thalion, Rainbow Arts and Gremlin had signed up to develop games for it.

Yes MS had great European support, but it was'nt being handled by ATARI was it it? LOL, SEGA back then probably had better realationship with 3Rd party developers than ATARI could ever dream of.ATARI were masters of 'annoucing X, Y+Z had signed up...and games A, B+C were in the works', pity so few things ever saw light of day.

As Gorf mentioned elsewhere and i recal from being a Jaguar owner myself, the delays between quality Jaguar games appearing were huge.

I've only to look at how ATARI handled the Lynx, the Falcon and the Jaguar to see how they'd of handled the Panther.

Offline Gorf

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2013, 13:51:46 PM »
Memory constraints aside.....

If ST compatibility is what you wanted, it's pretty clear that that would not have worked either...CD32 tried this approach and failed miserably. The Jaguar was the right move, they just did it the wrong way....or I should say
they rushed it out and missed a lot of very important things. The Panther would have had no less a hard time convincing people that a console trying to play computer games without a needed keyboard would have been
a good thing.

Offline Gorf

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2013, 13:53:27 PM »
Besides, with the right dev tools all those games from the ST. Amiga days could have been easily ported over to the Jaguar given its 68k and several were as a matterof fact... a lot of good that did for it as we now know today.

In my other post where I mention the games that should have been released with or shortly after the system
are the kind of projects Jaguar needed and many of them...that path was the right path, just too little to late.

Offline TL

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2013, 13:57:37 PM »
Quote from: "Gorf"
Besides, with the right dev tools all those games from the ST. Amiga days could have been easily ported over to the Jaguar given its 68k and several were as a matterof fact... a lot of good that did for it as we now know today.

In my other post where I mention the games that should have been released with or shortly after the system
are the kind of projects Jaguar needed and many of them...that path was the right path, just too little to late.

Yes but Panther would have been 2 years before Jaguar when those were the games that people wanted and they were not yet old hat.

Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2013, 14:19:06 PM »
Here's my take, lets say ATARI did release Panther and loads of European developers signed up, speaking as a MD+MCD owner i saw games ported across from Amiga to MD with mixed results, you had Gods which ran in 64 colours and faster than Amiga version, but lacked the superb title music, Chaos Engine which on MD+SNES had worse scrolling, Mega-Lo-Mania which due to MD sound chip had audio reduced to near ST quality.

Then on MCD things like Pugsy which had 'exclusive' level as did Md conversion to MCD of EWJ, only thing was, these exclusive levels were'nt that great, clearly thrown together rather than properly planned.

So, Panther is released, Gremlin say, annouce Zool which is out on:MS, MD, Amiga, ST, GG etc etc, only this time Panther version has more colours.(No idea which formats it did come out on, just using as example)

Atari annouce:Raiden which is already out on MD, PC Engine etc....


Atari Annouce Dino Dudes...everyone shrugs and says we've had Humans ta.

Atari annouce Pitfighter, Nintendo cracks up, points to SFII, Sega cracks into a smile, says guess who's getting C.E?

Atari annouce steel Talons, Sega say, yeah, we've got it, rough as it is, but have you got Desert or Jungle Strike? no..Red Zone? no....

During an era when Sega alone are delivering:Sonic, Thunderforce, Toe Jam And Earl, Shinobi, Strider, Final Fight SE, SOR, the Strike Series, Madden, Fifa, Phantasy Star, Mercs, Forgotten worlds, G 'N' G etc etc as well as SOTB, Pitfighter etc etc, how were ATARI going to compete with things like Crescent Galaxy?

Offline TL

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2013, 14:35:42 PM »
Well to counter that (as seems to be my job here :3:)

Let's say this instead, the following companies announce . . . .

Domark/Tengen

STUN Runner
Xybots
Steel Talons
Race Drivin'
Pit-Fighter
Road Riot 4WD
Rampart
A.P.B.
Hydra
Skull & Crossbones

Psygnosis

Lemmings 2
Shadow Of The Beast (Lynx version)
Blood Money 2
Walker
Agony

Thalion

Wings Of Death
No Second Prize
Lethal Xcess
Dragon Flight
A Prehistoric Tale

Rainbow Arts

Turrican 3
XYZ-Out
Starball 2
Great Giana Sisters
Spherical 2

Gremlin Graphics

Super Cars 3
Zool 2
Lotus 3
Switchblade 3
Hero Quest 3

With that kind of line up my only response would have been . . . . .


Offline Rogue Trooper

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2013, 15:57:43 PM »
Looking at above list then: (of games that would be of interest to myself as a punter)

Stun Runner:Killer title in arcades, what's on offer extra's wise on the Panther version?

Xybots:Pass ta, already played decent enough version on my ST/Amiga.Not paying full price for a tarted up version.

Lemmings II:Ok, great game but why should i go for this over the MD/SNES/Amiga version?




Pitfighter:old hat now chap, i hear the SNES is getting SF2.

Rampart:is'nt that out on MD, Lynx etc?.

APB:Superb game, but i've played  it to death on C64 and ST.

Walker:What have you done with the control scheme? does it work as well as the Amiga version as game been designed around mouse control.

Great Giana Sisters:Mario clone, would'nt i be better off going for a SNES if i wanted Mario? Super Mario 4 supposed to be bloody amazing.

Turrican III is'nt that Mega Turrican on the Genesis? plus have you seen SNES Super Contra? or MD Gunstar Heroes?, plus is'nt the Panther version just a more colourful Amiga port, plus more pricey?

Super Cars III (i'd wager would have been Amiga port as would Blood Money II)

Switchblade III ditto, plus Strider clone, so would have been up again'st mighty Strider on MD

Zool 2 vs Sonic series.


NOT knocking the games or your suggestions, but again it simply boils down to at best case scenario, what the Panther could have offered (and lot of in theory suggestions) and it'd be up again'st cheaper existing versions or be seen as just offering clones of games popular on other formats and unless your looking at European only release, it would have really struggled on the market.

Offline DreamcastRIP

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Re: The Atari Panther
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2013, 16:04:17 PM »
Quote from: "The Laird"
...With that kind of line up [size=360]my[/size] only response would have been . . . . .


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