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Welcome to Retro Video Gamer => Retro News & Chat => Topic started by: Rogue Trooper on January 06, 2013, 15:18:03 PM

Title: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 06, 2013, 15:18:03 PM
after few topics in the forum and chatbox, had the idea of starting a thread which, i hope might help dispel some of the 'urban Legends' that have been connected to our past time.

I.E did ATARI really bury a million or so unsold E.T carts in a landfill site etc?.

Few to get ball rolling then:

1)The FICTION:Playstation 2 was so powerful it was banned from sale in places like North Korea, Iran, Iraq and Libya, as fears were it's technology could be used to control Nuclear missiles and process Nuclear fuel for weapons programmes.

The FACT:Japanese Trade Ministry Officials were concerned PS2 COULD be used for Military purposes as in 1998 'similar' devices (electronics wise) for civilian use, were found in a North Korean submarine which had been sunk by the South Korean Military.

It just related to the mounted camera/missile guidance technology used by remote firing stations, where operator could alter missilesflight trajectory as missile was in flight.

It had nothing to do with processing power needed to to turn Nuclear Material into weapons grade etc.


2)The Playstation 2 had NO Anti-Alising built into the hardware (one for C=Style ;-) ).

The Fact:PS2 had hardware A.A on a 'primitive level'-in english, it allowed the coder to choose HOW to do the A.A, it was seen as a more flexible approach, ie IF you wanted Fullscreen A.A, then you could, you just needed to allocate the resources for it (early example of it being used, Stuntman).

PS2 hardware was very different to PS1 hardware, it was designed to try and over come the problems of sheer bus speed and slow access to video.

The limited Texture memory WAS a headache for many coders, but as Core themselves said, when developing Project Eden on the PS2- 'I guarantee that if you had a 100 meg of texture memory, we would still say that there was'nt enough.The stakes have been raised so much that artist's imaginations run away with them, we'll always want more'.

(Thought after defending Sega's akward beast, the Saturn, only fair i give balance and cover Sony's).
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TrekMD on January 06, 2013, 15:45:02 PM
Interesting about the PS2 and North Korea.  Of course, I'm sure the PS2 and other game consoles have sufficient computing power to also activate a nuclear weapon!  LOL
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 06, 2013, 16:41:06 PM
How disappointing that PS2 was banned in Iraq and Iran given that the hardware was perfectly suited to rendering featureless, barren, jagged and brown-coloured landscapes.  :P
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 06, 2013, 18:03:27 PM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
How disappointing that PS2 was banned in Iraq and Iran given that the hardware was perfectly suited to rendering featureless, barren, jagged and brown-coloured landscapes.  :P

And North Korea, where people blindly believe what the great leader tells them....


Ken Kut. would have had a field day with hyperbole claims and his 'The People must work extra hard to afford Playstation 2' type remarks.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 06, 2013, 18:24:02 PM
Here is an obvious one:

FICTION: The Atari Jaguar isn't really 64-bit.

FACT: Yes it is, the data bus is 64-bit as are the Object Processor and the Blitter. The Jag does not have a CPU so the machine can not be defined by that.

And another Atari related one:

FICTION: The Atari 7800 was a failure in the marketplace.

FACT: The machine was actually highly profitable for Atari, they sold nearly 4 million of them in North America, which is twice as many consoles as Sega sold with the Master System (only 2 million). In Europe the 2600 & 7800 (Atari didn't separate sales figures for them unfortunately) were in second place behind Sega. So in Atari's 2 biggest markets they were second in both, far from a failure.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 06, 2013, 20:28:02 PM
Video Games are Bad For You:

Some fact's to that, but only in ISOLATED cases:

A 17 Year old girl had an epileptic fit playing the coin-op Dark Warrior (1981, Century Electronics)-1st RECORDED case of a seizure caused by a video game.

The arrival of Space Invaders marked the 1st evidence of RSI caused by video gaming.

Long periods of bad posture whilst playing videogames lead to the arrival of the term 'Nintendo Neck' during the 1980's in the USA (So you guys best be careful DC+Laird) :-).

Another case of RSI from arcade machines was Pac Man elbow, caused by position of arm whilst playing.

Nintendinitis (No, NOT what Laird+DC are currently suffering from, lol, but...) 3rd lot of RSI, real medical name is tenosynovitis, inflammation of tendons in the hand.


Also, a study in vibration on games controllers by Leeds Uni. found Rez on a PS2 controller found the vibration levels were above those found in both lawnmowers+electric hammer drills (used to break up concrete) and at peak, entered same range as those found in chainsaws.Though you'd have to be playing 7 hrs straight to do real harm.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 07, 2013, 06:01:35 AM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Long periods of bad posture whilst playing videogames lead to the arrival of the term 'Nintendo Neck' during the 1980's in the USA (So you guys best be careful DC+Laird) :-).

Yep, I really must stop gaffer taping my Ninty Virtual Boy to my head when playing it.  8)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Big Phil on January 07, 2013, 13:47:50 PM
Loving this thread!

Put me out of my misery about the E.T. cartridges though as I heard this years ago.(I'll avoid google to keep the suspense)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 08, 2013, 09:46:27 AM
The Playstation Performance analyser, responsible for developers really getting the best out of the playstation, but are folks aware of just what a difference it made to some key PS1 games?

F1'97 moved into the Playstations High Res.mode as a result of it, Porsche Challenge benifitted greatly from it as did Rapid Racer, without which, game would'nt have been running in PS High Res mode, at 50 FPS Pal/60 FPS NTSC and have the draw distance+number of textured polys, finished game did have.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 08, 2013, 12:05:38 PM
A couple more from me:

FICTION: The Atari Jaguar must be programmed in assembler to get any kind of performance from it.

FACT: High Voltage software wrote NBA Jam: TE (widely regarded as the best version) in C and it is said that they were programmed Dactyl Joust in C too. They wrote their own C compiler to make programming Jag games much easier but sadly it was never shared with anyone and lost.

FICTION: Nintendo and Gunpei Yokoi invented the D-pad and it first appeared on the Nintendo Game & Watch.

FACT: The MB Microvision game Cosmic Hunter had a proper D-pad in 1982 and the Videomaster Star Chess had a basic directional pad in 1977.

(http://www.rfgeneration.com/images/games/U-011/gs/U-011-S-00060-A.jpg&sizex=200) (http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/userdata/images/large/PRODPIC-9840.jpg)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 08, 2013, 13:24:00 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
A couple more from me:

FICTION: The Atari Jaguar must be programmed in assembler to get any kind of performance from it.

FACT: High Voltage software wrote NBA Jam: TE (widely regarded as the best version) in C and it is said that they were programmed Dactyl Joust in C too. They wrote their own C compiler to make programming Jag games much easier but sadly it was never shared with anyone and lost.

FICTION: Nintendo and Gunpei Yokoi invented the D-pad and it first appeared on the Nintendo Game & Watch.

FACT: The MB Microvision game Cosmic Hunter had a proper D-pad in 1982 and the Videomaster Star Chess had a basic directional pad in 1977.

(http://www.rfgeneration.com/images/games/U-011/gs/U-011-S-00060-A.jpg&sizex=200) (http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/userdata/images/large/PRODPIC-9840.jpg)

Good work, keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 08, 2013, 16:01:01 PM
The Fiction:

Saturn was under-powered in terms of 3D and lighting performance compared to Playstation.

The Fact:Just keeping reading the Saturn thread on here.....

:-)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: zapiy on January 08, 2013, 23:45:45 PM
Nice read and a very interesting idea for a thread.. ;)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 09, 2013, 01:21:43 AM
Quote from: "zapiy"
Nice read and a very interesting idea for a thread.. ;)
Cheers.was trying to think of something above the norm, which would also help dispel some of the internet 'gospel'.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Big Phil on January 09, 2013, 12:49:40 PM
You really are keeping me in suspsense about the E.T. cartridges aren't you  :)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 09, 2013, 13:10:34 PM
Quote from: "Big Phil"
You really are keeping me in suspsense about the E.T. cartridges aren't you  :)

I can answer that for you:

FACT: Atari did fill up a landfill in New Mexico but not with Pac-Man and E.T. cartridges, that part of the story is just a myth. What they did do is dump faulty hardware, obsolete equipment, unwanted ROM chips and stuff like that. It was just a general dump, the ROM chips of course probably were E.T. and Pac-Man as Atari would have just re-used the circuit boards and cartridge shells for other games.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Big Phil on January 09, 2013, 13:24:11 PM
Cheers for that! Heard a similar story about the last of the star wars figures being used as landfill also.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: nakamura on January 09, 2013, 18:03:18 PM
Fiction.
The Sony Playstation 2 had no anti aliasing support.

Fact.
Support was not well documented and more complex to implement than other formats. The western launch of Tekken Tag featured it, an improvement over the JP version.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 09, 2013, 18:20:19 PM
I seem to recall the PAL release of Tekken Tag Tournament on PS2 being crucified in the gaming press for it being a lazy non-optimised NTSC port. My memory is vague in recalling the details now but didn't it have black screen borders and only run in 50Hz too because of this?
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: nakamura on January 09, 2013, 18:22:48 PM
Oh yeah, Namco and Capcom were sod lazy in the first year. Ridge Racer is so bad too.

The US version of Tekken Tag is the best version of the game. Ridge Racer V on JP even had a nasty memory card wiping bug.

The US Tekken Tag was a lovely looking game. Up there with DC Soul Calibur as one of the best arcade to home translations. Pity Sony screwed it up by not pushing for 60hz like Sega did.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 09, 2013, 18:31:05 PM
FICTION: The Legend Of Zelda on the NES was the first game to have a battery back-up save feature on the cartridge.

FACT: This is not actually true. Zelda came out August 1987 in the US, but the cartridge version of Hydlide II on the MSX had battery backup even earlier in late 1986.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: nakamura on January 09, 2013, 18:33:57 PM
I think that one gets mixed up because Zelda was released in February 1986 in Japan but on the disc system and not on cart like in the west.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 09, 2013, 20:10:58 PM
Quote from: "nakamura"
Oh yeah, Namco and Capcom were sod lazy in the first year. Ridge Racer is so bad too.

Yep, that Ridge Racer PS2 PAL conversion was rightly slaughtered too.

Quote
The US version of Tekken Tag is the best version of the game. Ridge Racer V on JP even had a nasty memory card wiping bug.

The US Tekken Tag was a lovely looking game. Up there with DC Soul Calibur as one of the best arcade to home translations. Pity Sony screwed it up by not pushing for 60hz like Sega did.

Don't forget the iffy scrolling effect and the fact the game lazily used the same animation and motion capture data for the fighters that they used in Tekken 3 on the relatively lowly PS1.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 10, 2013, 07:12:00 AM
Quote from: "nakamura"
Fiction.
The Sony Playstation 2 had no anti aliasing support.

Fact.
Support was not well documented and more complex to implement than other formats. The western launch of Tekken Tag featured it, an improvement over the JP version.

:-) Ahem, not read my post on this on page 1? Support was documented in the manuals Sony gave to developers, Phil Harrison got so wound up about it at a developers conference, he ripped said page out of documentation/manual just to prove the point.

Gave examples of European early use of it as well on P1.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: nakamura on January 10, 2013, 10:33:53 AM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "nakamura"
Oh yeah, Namco and Capcom were sod lazy in the first year. Ridge Racer is so bad too.

Yep, that Ridge Racer PS2 PAL conversion was rightly slaughtered too.

Quote
The US version of Tekken Tag is the best version of the game. Ridge Racer V on JP even had a nasty memory card wiping bug.

The US Tekken Tag was a lovely looking game. Up there with DC Soul Calibur as one of the best arcade to home translations. Pity Sony screwed it up by not pushing for 60hz like Sega did.

Don't forget the iffy scrolling effect and the fact the game lazily used the same animation and motion capture data for the fighters that they used in Tekken 3 on the relatively lowly PS1.

Certainly correct but the PS2 version was a lovely port like SC was on DC.  Both Tekken Tag and Soul Calibur run on the ageing System 12 hardware in the arcade. I wouldn't be surprised to see plenty of animation from Soul Edge in Calibur.


RT, sorry pal I thought that was from another thread.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 10, 2013, 13:57:26 PM
Quote from: "nakamura"
... Both Tekken Tag and Soul Calibur run on the ageing System 12 hardware in the arcade. I wouldn't be surprised to see plenty of animation from Soul Edge in Calibur.

I'd be very surprised if that were the case.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 10, 2013, 15:27:52 PM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "nakamura"
... Both Tekken Tag and Soul Calibur run on the ageing System 12 hardware in the arcade. I wouldn't be surprised to see plenty of animation from Soul Edge in Calibur.

I'd be very surprised if that were the case.

I could probably answer this one, as have various interviews  with the coding teams, butt...

1)Said interviews are in magazines which i've just re-buried and shudder at prospect of digging them out again, :-) and 2)Never been a huge Tekken fan, so would'nt have made a mental note on which publication i saw them in.

Sorry guys.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 10, 2013, 15:32:51 PM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Sorry guys.

Not good enough, buster. You're hereby sentenced to a day's gaming on the Cheetah Gamate and Watara/QuickShot Supervision!  :P
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 10, 2013, 15:54:39 PM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Sorry guys.

Not good enough, buster. You're hereby sentenced to a day's gaming on the Cheetah Gamate and Watara/QuickShot Supervision!  :P

Can i take the blindfold?

Still looking on the brightside, i'd take the pair of those over the original GB any day....

(Say that as 'owner' of GB, by owner, mean, was given 1, it sits, lurking boxed up, never to see light of day again).
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: nakamura on January 10, 2013, 16:11:15 PM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "nakamura"
... Both Tekken Tag and Soul Calibur run on the ageing System 12 hardware in the arcade. I wouldn't be surprised to see plenty of animation from Soul Edge in Calibur.

I'd be very surprised if that were the case.

Because?

Either way, SC was running on slightly souped up PS1 hardware, certainly nothing cutting edge.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 12, 2013, 17:51:49 PM
The System 11 coin-op hardware, was Namco's low cost solution to producing arcade boards, think it featured:

2 Boards: Playstation GPU+CPU on 1st, 2nd had Namco's own soundchips, extra VRAM and dedicated CPU Ram.

System 12 added a newer, 50% CPU, but was that it?.

Was'nt Tekken Tag an arcade board upgrade for Tekken 3 Coin-Ops ?.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 15:24:30 PM
Quote from: "nakamura"
Fiction.
The Sony Playstation 2 had no anti aliasing support.

Fact.
Support was not well documented and more complex to implement than other formats. The western launch of Tekken Tag featured it, an improvement over the JP version.

Bit of an update regarding this:

Project Gotham Racing on Xbox did'nt use Full Screen A.A, yet PS2 Stuntman did, so do feel PS2 took some unfair flak regarding it and question of A.A
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 15:29:59 PM
Fiction:Sega had a chance to use the Virtual Boy technology before it ended up being used by Nintendo.

Fact:True, Reflections technology had created the steroscopic LED technology years before it was used in the Virtual Boy, but they were not a gaming company so offered it 1st to Mattel (hardware was then known as 'Red World') and then later approached Sega, irony was it was Tom Kalinske who they saw both times (as he moved from Mattel to Sega) and he passed it up twice.

In Nintendo's case, Gumpei Yokoi took to the hardware as he was looking for a new technology that might encourage more creativity in games.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 15:37:51 PM
Fiction:Gumpei Yokoi was 'punished' by Nintendo for the failure of the Virtua Boy.

Fact:sadly it seems so, when employess make high-profile mistakes in Japan, it's not unusal for their superiors to make an example of them for a short time, before returning them to their former stature.

At the Shoshinkai trade show, where the N64 was being unvieled, Yokoi was given a small booth, in a corner, furthest away from the N64 stand, so he recived few visitors to the stand.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 18:28:44 PM
Fiction:Mega Drive Carts.destroyed in moral ourage.

Fact:A group of American ex-soliders DID indeed destroy a number of copies of Desert Strike on MD, by burning them, this was done to show their disgust at game being released so soon after the end of the (1st) Gulf War.

Fiction:CBM magazines turn to Atari/admit Atari hardware=better.

Fact:Been done a couple of times, very early days of Zzap 64 had them using A8 screenshots for C64 review of Bounty Bob Strikes Back (although they were honest about this in review), plus interviews with coders like Lucasarts had them saying the A8 range were the 'better' machines and also Archer commented on Atari Dropzone being the superior version.

Lot later, in an opinion piece, C.U Amiga had an article explaing how the Atari Falcon was superior in almost every dept.to the A1200.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 13, 2013, 18:43:47 PM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Fiction:Mega Drive Carts.destroyed in moral ourage.

Fact:A group of American ex-soliders DID indeed destroy a number of copies of Desert Strike on MD, by burning them, this was done to show their disgust at game being released so soon after the end of the (1st) Gulf War.

Fiction:CBM magazines turn to Atari/admit Atari hardware=better.

Fact:Been done a couple of times, very early days of Zzap 64 had them using A8 screenshots for C64 review of Bounty Bob Strikes Back (although they were honest about this in review), plus interviews with coders like Lucasarts had them saying the A8 range were the 'better' machines and also Archer commented on Atari Dropzone being the superior version.

Lot later, in an opinion piece, C.U Amiga had an article explaing how the Atari Falcon was superior in almost every dept.to the A1200.

I also saw a Commode magazine where Minter stated the A8 was the better machine too
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 13, 2013, 18:46:20 PM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Quote from: "nakamura"
Fiction.
The Sony Playstation 2 had no anti aliasing support.

Fact.
Support was not well documented and more complex to implement than other formats. The western launch of Tekken Tag featured it, an improvement over the JP version.

Bit of an update regarding this:

Project Gotham Racing on Xbox did'nt use Full Screen A.A, yet PS2 Stuntman did, so do feel PS2 took some unfair flak regarding it and question of A.A

Context, my dear boy!

Sony spent much time promising the Earth in the lead up to PS2's launch and also very specifically acted to damage Dreamcast's chances too. So when their supposed leviathan of a super-console rocked up and it didn't appear to have something the console they'd been ridiculing had then it made them a laughing stock to some people.

I don't recall Microsoft having acted the way Sony did but then again they were closely tied to Sega at one point (Windows CE as DC's secondary OS) and, as it later came out, were actually considering buying Sega out lock, stock and barrel to theoretically shortcut the process of entering the console hardware business.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 13, 2013, 18:50:28 PM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
I don't recall Microsoft having acted the way Sony did but then again they were closely tied to Sega at one point (Windows CE as DC's secondary OS) and, as it later came out, were actually considering buying Sega out lock, stock and barrel to theoretically shortcut the process of entering the console hardware business.

I also read that the main designer of the Dreamcast also designed the original Xbox and it was originally planned that the Xbox would be backwards compatible with the DC, one reason why the Xbox had so many Sega games on it (that were possibly planned for DC). I heard Bill Gates was the one who put a stop to it because he felt Xbox should stand up on its own as a brand.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 13, 2013, 19:06:15 PM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Fiction:Gumpei Yokoi was 'punished' by Nintendo for the failure of the Virtua Boy.

Fact:sadly it seems so, when employess make high-profile mistakes in Japan, it's not unusal for their superiors to make an example of them for a short time, before returning them to their former stature.

At the Shoshinkai trade show, where the N64 was being unvieled, Yokoi was given a small booth, in a corner, furthest away from the N64 stand, so he recived few visitors to the stand.

Yep, the manner in which Ninty sidelined him in a way that effectovely pushed him in to resigning was shameful.

All those years of loyal service and, in some instances, fabulously succesful products that he designed and co-designed and they pretty much pushed him out the door after the Virtual Boy debacle.

A debacle that was partly Ninty's fault anyway because Yokoi at one stage wanted the VB to feature graphics of a few colours but Ninty told him to choose only one colour due to cost implications.

At least he went on to design the successful (in Japan) WonderSwan handheld for Bandai before his untimely death which proved he didn't need Ninty to achieve success.

What makes me chuckle is all the Nintendards who seem to worship Yokoi while not realising how shabbily their beloved Ninty treated him at the end.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 13, 2013, 19:26:22 PM
FACT:
During development, the original DirectX box name was shortened to Xbox. Microsoft's marketing department did not like the Xbox name, and suggested many alternatives. During focus testing, the Xbox name was left on the list of possible names to demonstrate how unpopular the Xbox name would be with consumers. However, consumer testing revealed that Xbox was preferred by far over the other suggested names and "Xbox" became the official name of the product.

ADDITIONAL LESSER KNOWN CONTROVERSIAL INFORMATION:
The (DirectX) logo originally resembled a deformed radiation warning symbol. Controversially, the original name for the DirectX project was the "Manhattan Project", a reference to the US nuclear weapons initiative. Alex St. John, creator of the original Microsoft DirectX specification, claims that the connotation with the ultimate outcome of the Manhattan Project (the nuclear bombing of Japan) is intentional, and that DirectX and its sister project, the Xbox (which shares a similar logo), are meant to displace Japanese videogame makers from their dominance of the industry. However, this meaning is publicly denied by Microsoft, which instead claims that it is merely an artistic design.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/DirectX_1_logo.png/120px-DirectX_1_logo.png)

(All info quoted from Wikipedia)

The story goes that Microsoft named the Xbox thus because they intended it to be akin to them, an American company, dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan's videogame console industry. Shocking stuff.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 20:09:43 PM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Quote from: "nakamura"
Fiction.
The Sony Playstation 2 had no anti aliasing support.

Fact.
Support was not well documented and more complex to implement than other formats. The western launch of Tekken Tag featured it, an improvement over the JP version.

Bit of an update regarding this:

Project Gotham Racing on Xbox did'nt use Full Screen A.A, yet PS2 Stuntman did, so do feel PS2 took some unfair flak regarding it and question of A.A

Context, my dear boy!

Sony spent much time promising the Earth in the lead up to PS2's launch and also very specifically acted to damage Dreamcast's chances too. So when their supposed leviathan of a super-console rocked up and it didn't appear to have something the console they'd been ridiculing had then it made them a laughing stock to some people.

I don't recall Microsoft having acted the way Sony did but then again they were closely tied to Sega at one point (Windows CE as DC's secondary OS) and, as it later came out, were actually considering buying Sega out lock, stock and barrel to theoretically shortcut the process of entering the console hardware business.

Prior to buying my Xbox, i saw MS 'downgrade' the Xbox specs, but STILL bandy about on paper type Polygonper sec specs, which they used to compare and contrast to PS2's, so in that regard they used the same ploys Sony did in terms of going all out in the polygon 'arms race' as i call it.

Plus Xbox Vector Units were'nt as flexible as those in PS2 or so various coders off games on both platforms claim.

And i wonder what happened to Xbox being region-free eh MS? Lot of talk about it being just that, before hardware launched, then very quiet when it turned out it was'nt...

:-)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 20:26:09 PM
Few points in relation to past few posts.

Word had it Sony had REJECTED Bill Gates request to use MS development tools and O/S in Playstation 2.

In terms of the Windows CE O/S and dev.tools used in Sega's Dreamcast, unless developers were creating games which had ONLINE features, most used Sega's tools, NOT MS CE one's.

In fact Gates himself asked the question: 'Tell me who used Windows CE in a Dreamcast game?' in a meeting when MS were looking at the WebTV device which was being looked at along side the XBox as best way to 'beat' the PS2 in the living room (do we do battle with PS2 via the Xbox or come up from the appliance world via WebTV?'

The team behind the creation of the Xbox got a rocketing at 1 internal meeting.Why? they had'nt detailed the cost of the screws in a bill of materials.

Yokoi's death was due to a car accident, but i'm lead to believe it was a savage twist of fate type affair.

Story goes he and a friend were involved in a MINOR car accident (their car went up the backside of another), Yokoi and friend got out of the car to inspect the damage to the other car, when they were THEN both hit by a 3rd car.

Yokoi suffering fatal injuries, his friend whilst hurt, not suffering the same degree of injury.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 20:29:52 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
I don't recall Microsoft having acted the way Sony did but then again they were closely tied to Sega at one point (Windows CE as DC's secondary OS) and, as it later came out, were actually considering buying Sega out lock, stock and barrel to theoretically shortcut the process of entering the console hardware business.

I also read that the main designer of the Dreamcast also designed the original Xbox and it was originally planned that the Xbox would be backwards compatible with the DC, one reason why the Xbox had so many Sega games on it (that were possibly planned for DC). I heard Bill Gates was the one who put a stop to it because he felt Xbox should stand up on its own as a brand.

I DO know for a fact Toe Jam And Earl 3 and Gun Valk. started out on Dreamcast, before Sega moved them onto Xbox (and they really needed to sort out G.Valks camera and controls, ruined a lovely looking game)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 13, 2013, 20:32:05 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Fiction:Mega Drive Carts.destroyed in moral ourage.

Fact:A group of American ex-soliders DID indeed destroy a number of copies of Desert Strike on MD, by burning them, this was done to show their disgust at game being released so soon after the end of the (1st) Gulf War.

Fiction:CBM magazines turn to Atari/admit Atari hardware=better.

Fact:Been done a couple of times, very early days of Zzap 64 had them using A8 screenshots for C64 review of Bounty Bob Strikes Back (although they were honest about this in review), plus interviews with coders like Lucasarts had them saying the A8 range were the 'better' machines and also Archer commented on Atari Dropzone being the superior version.

Lot later, in an opinion piece, C.U Amiga had an article explaing how the Atari Falcon was superior in almost every dept.to the A1200.

I also saw a Commode magazine where Minter stated the A8 was the better machine too

Zzap 64's Elktaglide review also made note that the Atari version was far superior.

And another C.U instance, they praised the Jaguar in a CD32 Vs upcoming consoles feature.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 14, 2013, 03:04:19 AM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Quote from: "nakamura"
Fiction.
The Sony Playstation 2 had no anti aliasing support.

Fact.
Support was not well documented and more complex to implement than other formats. The western launch of Tekken Tag featured it, an improvement over the JP version.

Bit of an update regarding this:

Project Gotham Racing on Xbox did'nt use Full Screen A.A, yet PS2 Stuntman did, so do feel PS2 took some unfair flak regarding it and question of A.A

Context, my dear boy!

Sony spent much time promising the Earth in the lead up to PS2's launch and also very specifically acted to damage Dreamcast's chances too. So when their supposed leviathan of a super-console rocked up and it didn't appear to have something the console they'd been ridiculing had then it made them a laughing stock to some people.

I don't recall Microsoft having acted the way Sony did but then again they were closely tied to Sega at one point (Windows CE as DC's secondary OS) and, as it later came out, were actually considering buying Sega out lock, stock and barrel to theoretically shortcut the process of entering the console hardware business.

Prior to buying my Xbox, i saw MS 'downgrade' the Xbox specs, but STILL bandy about on paper type Polygonper sec specs, which they used to compare and contrast to PS2's, so in that regard they used the same ploys Sony did in terms of going all out in the polygon 'arms race' as i call it.

Plus Xbox Vector Units were'nt as flexible as those in PS2 or so various coders off games on both platforms claim.

And i wonder what happened to Xbox being region-free eh MS? Lot of talk about it being just that, before hardware launched, then very quiet when it turned out it was'nt...

:-)

I really don't think such actions put Microsoft in the same league as Sony when it comes to BS and lies.

For the sake of clarity, please don't infer from that or any previous post of mine that I'm some sort of Microsoft fan/fanboy as I've no time whatsoever for such moronic nonsense. I really couldn't give a damn for fanboys of any allegiance whether they worship Atari, Commodore, Sinclair, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft or Apple, et al. They're all as pitiful as one another, in my opinion.

At least on RVG we don't get that crap and, given recent events, I'd hope things stay that way so the forum doesn't go down the drain like certain other videogaming forums have. The moderators seem to know what they're doing here so far and long may it stay that way.

To clarify further in case any easily offended conspiracy theory types get the wrong idea from the above I've no problem whatsoever with fans of whatever videogames or videogame developers/publishers. It's the moronic fanboys I'm referring to whom are a breed apart and serve to blight many other videogame forums and, if left unchecked by weak or clueless moderators, do enormous damage to the community.

@ RT: For the record, none of that was directed at you personally. :)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 14, 2013, 09:06:18 AM
:) Did'nt take any of that personally DC, i find the 'talk' the hardware corps come out with very interesting and a source of much healthy debate.

Sony have indeed had a head start on MS in the bullshit and lies department, a situation i now find very curius as Phill Harrison now working for MS, lets see where he takes the ball this time, already started sprouting on about MS and 'The Cloud' being the future.
Given MS approach this gen of' We don't need Blu ray, future is in digital' i'll be watching keenly what optical format the next gen Xbox uses and also if this time, it really IS an end to jaggies lol.

Also wondering what approach MS will take with regards to showing wip Xbox next games, prior to 360 launch, MS were very honest in showing auctual, early in-game footage running on 360 dev.kit hardware and suffered for it, as at that stage, lot of it looked like spruced up Xbox games, where as Sony showed that 'concept' footage for Killzone........


Since then, MS seems to have gotten caught up in this approach, we've seen Milo+Kate, Star Wars Kinect, all stage managed etc.

Plus as an Xbox owner, that fake 9, minute Halo 2 demo.will stay with me (Looked far better gameplay wise than final game) as will the advertising campain-ALL about the battle for Earth etc, yet spent so little time Earthside it was unreal.


Also Brute Force was a crushing dissapointment, yet MS kept the hype train running, ohh we got Bungie involved, polishing it up, etc.

But as a 360 owner, personally feel the biggest damage they did, was inital reluctance to admit there WAS a critical design flaw with the 360 over heating-Classing it as 'The 12 Angry Men On The Internet' or blaming it on people plugging the console into surge protecting extension power cords, when they new the cooling system/air flow issue on 360 was at fault, was a move as bad as anything Sony has done.

Was really surprised here as during the Xbox days, MS very quick to send out new power leads for ALL Xboxes after 1 caught fire.


Sonys customer service however, speaking from personal exp.here, as Playstation owner=Fantastic, very good to deal with when my launch model PS1 plastic lens holder warped, brand new unit sent out, no fuss, just delt with.

PS2's i've owned, i've never had any issues with so cannot comment.

PS3 issues though, be they hardware faults or something as simple as:PSN won't accept my card (very early days) or why won't it connect to my new hub?

Rude, arrogant, unhelpful. not interested, flippant etc.


I would have thought the failure of Vita would have been a wake up call, as initally would the rough start for the PS3, but no...they still have heads up own backsides.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 14, 2013, 15:53:01 PM
Fiction:EDGE magazine reviewer unhappy with PC Doom as you cannot interact with monsters.

Fact:True.Review ends off with: '.....If only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances....now that would be interesting'.

Score:7/10.


This from the very magazine that totally miss-understood Jaguar AVP mind (4/10), GTA 3 PS2 (6/10) though they claimed it was a mistake and Gunstar Heroes on MD (6/10)-though they admit review was far too harsh.

And..the publication that HAD to come clean about Airbrushing DOA 3 XBOX Screenshots (no MS bullshit eh DC UK? LOL)....
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Bobinator on January 14, 2013, 17:14:39 PM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Fiction:EDGE magazine reviewer unhappy with PC Doom as you cannot interact with monsters.

Fact:True.Review ends off with: '.....If only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances....now that would be interesting'.

I'm sorry, but this is still the most retarded thing I've ever heard. I mean, in some other game, in some other genre, that'd be great. But at no point was anything ever said about being able to do anything like this in Doom (even at the point in development where there was much more of a plot), so what in the frick were they expecting?
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 14, 2013, 17:58:23 PM
Quote from: "Bobinator"
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Fiction:EDGE magazine reviewer unhappy with PC Doom as you cannot interact with monsters.

Fact:True.Review ends off with: '.....If only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances....now that would be interesting'.

I'm sorry, but this is still the most retarded thing I've ever heard. I mean, in some other game, in some other genre, that'd be great. But at no point was anything ever said about being able to do anything like this in Doom (even at the point in development where there was much more of a plot), so what in the frick were they expecting?

You not familar with EDGE? a magazine so up it's own arse, it'd need invasive surgery to get that sorted, a magazine that describes itself as 'The Industry Bible' (what this basically means is lot of developers/publishers place recruitment ads in it) a magazine so arrogant it's like the old British Empire days in print.

It's practice of not naming reviewers is classic, 1 issue alone HOTD:Overkill (Wii) praised for it's swearing and the like, few pages along, Killzone 3, slamned for it's swearing and the like.

Condemend 2-Condemend at review for dubious morals, GTA series, praised for it's freedom to kill.(subnote:Rockstar supply an awful lot of paid for cover art, ex-Edge member claims that gets them min 9/10 review score for GTA games, have to say, review text so often reads lot lower than score given....).

Pandemic's The Saboteur, slamned for girls with their tits out in a Paris gentlemans club, no such concern over birds with goods out in Max Payne 3.

AVP on Jaguar, 4/10 one of main faults they had, NO IN GAME MUSIC-yeah never mind Rebellion took samples from film, created a superb atmosphere, what we need is some drum 'n' bass raging on.....

Edge's mission statement was they'd NEVER be swayed over by graphics, cue few issues later:

Graphics To Die For...Rise Of The Robots, front cover, huge making of.

Other clangers...XBOX was dying (this before it had things like Far Cry, HL2 etc which PS2 could'nt handle).

Sad thing is, when they DO get it right, the articles and making of's ARE superb (AVP Jaguar and Tempest 2000 Jaguar to name but 2).
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 14, 2013, 20:27:36 PM
Fiction:

Team 17 amazed everyone by annoucing the ZX Spectrum version of Worms:Armageddon was well underway, they not only proved an early screenshot, but went onto say:

'...The Speccy version of Worms:armageddon has allowed us to do some really pretty 16-colour graphics and 1-channel sound.It may come as a surprise to some that we've developed for the spectrum, but it's only cost us 150-odd to do.'

The Speccy version promised: No poncy FMV and a 7 min.loading time.

The Fact:It was all a joke Team 17 had created to fly in the face of all the then, Next-Generation hype surrounding the Dreamcast+PS2.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 14, 2013, 21:09:10 PM
I have never heard that story before!!!

Here is another great one:

FICTION: The Nintendo 64 was the first console to have an analogue controller.

FACT: No it wasn't, not even close. As well as the Vectrex and Atari 5200 the Interton 4000 (and clones) had an analogue joystick back in 1978. Even if you want to argue that it had the first analogue thumbstick for 3D games the Vectrex still has it beat by well over 10 years.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 14, 2013, 21:56:41 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
I have never heard that story before!!!

Here is another great one:

FICTION: The Nintendo 64 was the first console to have an analogue controller.

FACT: No it wasn't, not even close. As well as the Vectrex and Atari 5200 the Interton 4000 (and clones) had an analogue joystick back in 1978. Even if you want to argue that it had the first analogue thumbstick for 3D games the Vectrex still has it beat by well over 10 years.

Glad you liked it mate.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on January 14, 2013, 22:05:14 PM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Fiction:EDGE magazine reviewer unhappy with PC Doom as you cannot interact with monsters.

Fact:True.Review ends off with: '.....If only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances....now that would be interesting'.

Score:7/10.


This from the very magazine that totally miss-understood Jaguar AVP mind (4/10), GTA 3 PS2 (6/10) though they claimed it was a mistake and Gunstar Heroes on MD (6/10)-though they admit review was far too harsh.

I knew there was good reason I don't buy EDGE magazine. Muppets!

Quote
And..the publication that HAD to come clean about Airbrushing DOA 3 XBOX Screenshots (no MS bullshit eh DC UK? LOL)....

I'll laugh with you there! Weird that they gave that of all games the 'digital botox' screenshot treatment when the game had some excellent graphics anyway. If memory serves, that game was one of the few Xbox-exclusives Microsoft signed from Japanese videogame publishers so maybe they were desperate to make the game a success given how poorly the console was selling in Japan.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 15, 2013, 10:05:20 AM
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Fiction:EDGE magazine reviewer unhappy with PC Doom as you cannot interact with monsters.

Fact:True.Review ends off with: '.....If only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances....now that would be interesting'.

Score:7/10.


This from the very magazine that totally miss-understood Jaguar AVP mind (4/10), GTA 3 PS2 (6/10) though they claimed it was a mistake and Gunstar Heroes on MD (6/10)-though they admit review was far too harsh.

I knew there was good reason I don't buy EDGE magazine. Muppets!

Quote
And..the publication that HAD to come clean about Airbrushing DOA 3 XBOX Screenshots (no MS bullshit eh DC UK? LOL)....

I'll laugh with you there! Weird that they gave that of all games the 'digital botox' screenshot treatment when the game had some excellent graphics anyway. If memory serves, that game was one of the few Xbox-exclusives Microsoft signed from Japanese videogame publishers so maybe they were desperate to make the game a success given how poorly the console was selling in Japan.

Yeah i had the game and it looked fantastic, no need to tart up the screenshots, but then there's been a lot of screen shot trickery pulled off by magazines before, worst offender Zzap 64 with C64 Operation Thunderbolt-entire review done on the unfinished version, which looked superb.Zzap gave it a 'Sizzler' award

Game was rewritten from scratch in a hurry as original coder left and looked awful.

Mind you Zzap had found themselves in hot water long time before that, Bobby Bearing on tape, got good score for sound, yet production version had NO sound, Zzap going on claims from publisher tape version would have the sound n music disk version had.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 15, 2013, 11:54:38 AM
Fiction:Sega originally planned for the Saturn to be released in 2 forms.1 Cart.based, the other CD based.

Fact:

True.Saturn was code name for the CD based model, Jupiter for the Catridge Only model. Compatibility between Saturn+Jupiter was going to be achived by means of a plug in CD-Rom drive, which had extra Ram.

Sega however anticipated that it'd have an uphill struggle trying to sell cut down cart.based versions of Saturn games to Jupiter owners, espically as they'd cost more than the CD games on Saturn and thus Jupiter was scrapped.

The 32X started out with code name 'The Mars Project'.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 15, 2013, 15:07:04 PM
Anyone know truth behind these?

1)Sony had to pay Yamaha an undisclosed sum of money, to buy the name 'Playstation'.

2)In order to get a 'teen' rating in the states, Um Jammer Lammy had to be 'censored' (In the Jap original, Lammy dies after slipping on a banan, wakes up in hell, has to play her guitar for her soul to be re-united with her body) US version had the action relocated to a remote island instead.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 15, 2013, 15:26:08 PM
Fiction: key members of RARE leave to form Sony funded Studio (during N64/PS1 days).

Fact:Very true, 1 game designer, 3 software engineers and 2 artists (who'd worked on:K.I 1+2, DKC 1+2, DK:Land and Goldeneye) left to form 'Eighth Wonder'.Sony committed to publishing 1st 3 games, got 1st refusal on next 3 after that.

Internal issues within the studio meant only 1 game ever came close to seeing a release, 'Popcorn' aka 'Short Fuses'-a 3D Bomberman affair, but with puzzle and exploaration elements'.

Game was said to run at 30 FPS in a High Res PS1 mode of 512X240, with nice lighting.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 15, 2013, 23:41:25 PM
FICTION: The Atari 7800 was only brought out by Atari because of the success of the NES. Atari had previously shelved the console because Jack Tramiel had famously said that "Atari are a computer company now" when he was shown the console and threw it across the room.

FACT: All wrong, Jack never said any such thing. The 7800 was only delayed because it was not part of the deal when Jack bought Atari. He argued it should have been but Warner still hadn't paid the creators GCC for their  work on the machine. The legal wrangles over the console were what caused the big delay, Jack eventually ended up paying GCC himself. The original 7800 test market in 1984 had gone incredibly well with the system selling out quickly and got a far better response than the NES (in test market at the same time) from both the press and consumers.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TrekMD on January 15, 2013, 23:43:11 PM
Wait, isn't the famous mis-quote that Tramiel said "Atari is a computer company now" rather than a video game company?
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 15, 2013, 23:46:02 PM
Quote from: "TrekMD"
Wait, isn't the famous mis-quote that Tramiel said "Atari is a computer company now" rather than a video game company?

Whoops, fixed!  :-[
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 20, 2013, 15:30:52 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
Quote from: "DreamcastRIP"
I don't recall Microsoft having acted the way Sony did but then again they were closely tied to Sega at one point (Windows CE as DC's secondary OS) and, as it later came out, were actually considering buying Sega out lock, stock and barrel to theoretically shortcut the process of entering the console hardware business.

I also read that the main designer of the Dreamcast also designed the original Xbox and it was originally planned that the Xbox would be backwards compatible with the DC, one reason why the Xbox had so many Sega games on it (that were possibly planned for DC). I heard Bill Gates was the one who put a stop to it because he felt Xbox should stand up on its own as a brand.
Not Xbox, but PS2 Shinobi, was originally going to appear on Dreamcast.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 20, 2013, 15:33:29 PM
Fiction:Tempest 3000 could have been converted from NUON to Game Cube.

Fact:True.Jeff said on his forum, that he'd love to bring the game to the Game Cube, he just needed a publisher willing to get him to do it.Sadly it, (like Unity on GC), never happened.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 20, 2013, 21:24:37 PM
Few more:

Fiction:At time of PS3 launch, even the US editor of the Official Playstation Magazine, thought it was over-priced and she herself had just bought an Xbox 360!.

Fact:True-Dana Jongewaard: '...Ultimately, i just cannot justify it. $600 is a lot of money, espically when i can get what-for me at least-will be a very similar experience for $400'.

Fiction:Argonaut's Alien Resurrection (PS1) was originally going to be a 2.5D, top down, 'Loaded' like game, but was totally re-written due to concerns over it's quality, to become the FPS game that was released.

Fact:True, original game was well under way, lot of preview material sent to the press etc, but as 1 (now EX-Argonaut) team member put it:

'it was a side-on 3D scrolling shooter, then one day they decided it was just a big pile of shit, scrapped the old game and started making a FPS game instead'.

Pity said policy of scrapping and re-coding game from pretty much scratch because it was shit did'nt apply to:Croc, Malice, Birds Of Prey, Creature Shock, Red Dog.....

:-)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 22, 2013, 18:46:42 PM
Body Harvest (N64) was nearly an RPG. Fiction?

Fact:DMA's original design document to Nintendo consisted of a single picture-An upturned car+a giant bug.2 years later they presented Nintendo an early version of Body Harvest, which they'd made into an action game.

Nintendo took an instant dislike to it and sent a team of their own people over to DMA to redesign the game, from scratch IF needed (in with the team was a Zelda producer).

At that point in time the N64 was lacking a BIG RPG and being outsold by PS1, so Nintendo wanted the game turned into an RPG, something DMA staff were not overly happy with (espically as the re-design meant work on another game, 'Zenith', a mix of platformer+racing, had to be stopped, game canned, staff moved to Body Harvest etc), but they agreed.

Along the way to completiotion, game style changed again, this time to a free-roaming, 3rd person affair, where it stayed.

It was'nt the ONLY redesign though, as a missunderstanding between Nintendo+DMA, thanks to a confused translator, had DMA thinking Nintendo did'nt like the look of the aliens, so they re-designed them, when Nintendo saw the new versions, they commented the aliens had now lost their wonderfully unique look.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 23, 2013, 15:25:25 PM
FICTION: The first system to feature motion control was the Nintendo Wii.

FACT: In actual fact it was the Philips CD-i, the system's light gun makes use of a bar you place on top of your TV (exactly like the Wii) and uses genuine motion control unlike other light guns of the time. In fact Philips are credited with the design in the Wii's patent application.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 23, 2013, 15:35:15 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
FICTION: The first system to feature motion control was the Nintendo Wii.

FACT: In actual fact it was the Philips CD-i, the system's light gun makes use of a bar you place on top of your TV (exactly like the Wii) and uses genuine motion control unlike other light guns of the time. In fact Philips are credited with the design in the Wii's patent application.


Nice to see the CD-i getting the mention it deserves, system had it's flaws, was released late and over priced, but you cannot fault what they were trying to do with the hardware in many regards.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on January 23, 2013, 17:52:11 PM
Talk of Atari Karts in another thread reminded me of this one:

FICTION: Super Mario Kart was the very first Karting game.

FACT: I present to you Professional Go-Kart Simulator by Zeppelin on the Spectrum

(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/575645-professional-go-kart-simulator-zx-spectrum-screenshot-the.png)  (http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/575648-professional-go-kart-simulator-zx-spectrum-screenshot-taking.png)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on January 29, 2013, 12:56:08 PM
And Players had Turbo Kart Racer on C64, took an overhead-view, but had split screen 2-Player mode.

More of a Super Sprint clone, but Karting was out there.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on February 04, 2013, 21:00:58 PM
FICTION: The SNK Neo Geo is a 24-bit console.

FACT: There is no such thing. SNK cheekily advertised it as 24-bit because it had 2 CPU's - a 16-bit Motorola 68000 (same as the ST, Amiga and Mega Drive) and a 8-bit Z80 co-processor (same as the Spectrum, Game Boy and Master System). They figured 16+8=24, but as the main CPU is 16-bit then it is 16-bit. The Mega Drive also has a Z80 co-processor too so Sega could have claimed the same thing.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: nakamura on February 10, 2013, 12:20:47 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
Talk of Atari Karts in another thread reminded me of this one:

FICTION: Super Mario Kart was the very first Karting game.

FACT: I present to you Professional Go-Kart Simulator by Zeppelin on the Spectrum

(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/575645-professional-go-kart-simulator-zx-spectrum-screenshot-the.png)  (http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/575648-professional-go-kart-simulator-zx-spectrum-screenshot-taking.png)


Is that really a fact? I can't say I have ever heard anyone say that! Loads of go-kart games on 8bits!
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on February 22, 2013, 21:18:40 PM
Bit of a thread bump, but i can shed some 'light' on PS2 Tekken Tag conversion:

Namco 'ordered' the conversion of Tekken Tag from the arcades to PS2 as a Tekken game for PS2 launch was seen as essential, Kimoto-san said 'it takes time to adapt to new hardware' and they were not happy with the amount of time given to handle the conversion and says the team DID try and offer a full-screen A.A solution on Tekken Tag, but were still learning the 'tricks' of the PS2 hardware.In the interview team talked of PS2 Tekken 4 being 640X480 and they would'nt be using any form of A.A as they wanted the visuals to be sharp.Team also talk of refusing to use the blur effect of the PS2's A.A filter, as it sometimes prevents you from seeing all the details correctly.

So far from being 'lazy' Namco gave their coders tight deadlines and they were working on complex hardware and even when they did get to grips with i, the A.A solutions the PS2 offered, were'nt always the right tools for the job.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on March 08, 2013, 19:41:55 PM
Fiction?

Naughty Dog decided NOt to make a Crash game on PS2, as the character was designed to work within the hardware restrictions of the PSOne.

Fact:

Very true.Crash's head was so big in the PS1 series due to screen resolution issues (and bright orange), he did'nt speak, as it was'nt easy to spool audio at the same time as other data and whilst the 'power' of the PS2 would have resolved these issues, developers thought if you changed the character's 'personality', i.e he's now got a voice, you'd ruin him.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on March 08, 2013, 19:54:30 PM
Never knew that!

Seems a bit silly though to kill off a successful franchise like that!
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on March 08, 2013, 20:02:27 PM
Naughty Dog say another reason they did'nt want to give Crash a 'personality' by making him speak etc, was that they'd seen what had happened with Sonic, who'd gained a voice in the TV show and all of a sudden, he was'nt the Sonic you once knew, by giving him personality changed Sonic from being pure sonic as it were.

Have to say i wish Sega had'nt voiced Sonic myself, so see where they are coming from.

Things like the Fog in Silent Hill though, that originally was put in to help the PSone hardware render the 3D enviroments in the 1st Silent Hil, it had a wonderful side effect of making the game very atmospheric and since people liked it so much, for the sequel on PS2, Team Silent kept it in, just used the power of PS2 to make the fog much more realistic.

In the piece i'm reading, from Naughty Dog's PS2 era, they make a VERY good point about how whilst more power was great IF you were chasing more Polygons, better lighting effects etc, where was the addt.gameplay coming from and whilst say in Gran Turismo, you could increase the number of cars, the detail etc, it'd still be Gran Turismo, or a Tennis game, you could render photo-realistic characters, based on real life sports stars, it'd still be Tennis, yet new power could really change things like GTA, making more belivable cityscapes, more freedom etc, things like online spoke to them more of 'Next Generation' than how many Polygons per sec your hardware could render.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on March 09, 2013, 12:56:34 PM
A couple of little ones, often wrongly quoted:

FICTION: Atari's Pong was the first ever arcade video game.

FACT: It wasn't, Dabney and Nolan had first created Space War for Nutting Associates.

(http://www.pinkgorillagames.com/retro/computer%20space%20cabinet-thumb.JPG)

FICTION: The Atari 2600 was the very first fully programmable games console.

FACT: It wasn't it was beat by a couple of machine but the first was the Fairchild Channel F released in 1976.

(http://fndcollectables.com/Fairchild/Brochures/1977brochure10cartsfront.jpg)
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: nakamura on March 09, 2013, 13:43:39 PM
Quote from: "Rogue Trooper"
Bit of a thread bump, but i can shed some 'light' on PS2 Tekken Tag conversion:

Namco 'ordered' the conversion of Tekken Tag from the arcades to PS2 as a Tekken game for PS2 launch was seen as essential, Kimoto-san said 'it takes time to adapt to new hardware' and they were not happy with the amount of time given to handle the conversion and says the team DID try and offer a full-screen A.A solution on Tekken Tag, but were still learning the 'tricks' of the PS2 hardware.In the interview team talked of PS2 Tekken 4 being 640X480 and they would'nt be using any form of A.A as they wanted the visuals to be sharp.Team also talk of refusing to use the blur effect of the PS2's A.A filter, as it sometimes prevents you from seeing all the details correctly.

So far from being 'lazy' Namco gave their coders tight deadlines and they were working on complex hardware and even when they did get to grips with i, the A.A solutions the PS2 offered, were'nt always the right tools for the job.

But the western versions of Tekken Tag were anti aliased. Just the Japanese version that wasn't.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on July 26, 2013, 21:36:52 PM
A couple more recent fact finds:

FICTION: The Atari Lynx was a failure

FACT: It sold around 2.5 million meaning it was far from a failure and sold especially well in Europe


FICTION: The Atari XEGS was released as a way to clear existing 8-bit inventory

FACT: In actual fact it was released in response to retailers requests for a console that could be converted into a computer after the cancellation of the 7800 computer add-on and the NES keyboard/computer add-on.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on July 26, 2013, 21:48:07 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
FICTION: The Atari Lynx was a failure

FACT: It sold 2.5 million meaning it was far from a failure and sold especially well in Europe

Except that's not a fact at all.

From your interview with Darryl Still:

Quote
Q. I always guessed at about 2.5 million...
A. Yes, something like that...

Him saying "something like that" does not therefore mean that it is a fact that Lynx sold "about 2.5 million" units.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on July 26, 2013, 21:54:05 PM
My god what is wrong with you today?  :o

The fact is it was not a failure, the exact sales figure is not the issue here. Edited due to extreme pedantry.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on July 26, 2013, 22:06:16 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
My god what is wrong with you today?  :o

The fact is it was not a failure, the exact sales figure is not the issue here. Edited due to extreme pedantry.

Nothing's wrong with me today, thank you. You presented a sales figure as though it were fact and I merely pointed out that that it was not. I'm sorry that you seem to find being factually correct to equate with "extreme pedantry".

Anyways... I've been reading teh internets and have discovered that Jaguar isn't 64-bit because it has a 16-bit CPU. Some folk seem to think the SNES was 16-bit while maintaining the PC Engine/Turbo-Grafx 16 was 8-bit. Fascinating!

EDIT: Okay, I'm feeling grouchy due to lack of sleep!!
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on July 26, 2013, 22:57:28 PM
As thread creator here, i'm not getting into a pissing contest over who said what, but  as far as i'm aware actual detailed sales figures for The Lynx are hard to come by, as Atari like many after it, could be a bit selective over just how those figures broke down, if Darryl did'nt know....not much hope for the rest of us.

Laird:In fairness your original post did have a ruddy great FACT at start of your statement...so an edit has now cleared up any confusion.

Great to see the thread bumped, but perhaps we can move forward on future posts, not sideways....


Love 'n' hugs X X X
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on July 27, 2013, 08:31:08 AM
FICTION: One could input a code when playing the original Tomb Raider to see Lara Croft naked.

FACT: If such a prospect once titillated you then you really needed to get a life!
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on October 01, 2013, 15:35:07 PM
Fiction:Tomb Raider was originally going to star a male character.

Fact:

It's true.Toby Gard's original design for the game consisted of 4 drawings and these were of a male, Indiania Jones type person in a 3D world, this evolved into having a choice of male or female characters, but he then realised that as he was going for a movie-directed style game, lot of story telling etc, that'd mean double  the amount of cinematics the game would require, so it had to come down to chap or the lass.

He liked Lara more than the chap, so she stayed he went!


But the sex-symbol image core turned her into, was exact opposite of what toby wanted, he also 'blames' Core for turning the series stagnant, each new T.R game basically the same, but with different graphics, new costume or vehicle etc.


Where did game get it's influences from? well the twin pistol shooting game from his love of the film Hard Boiled and also Aeon Flux.


Main inspiration for the game:Ultima Underworld (a game that really blew his mind and hinted at where industry was headed) and it was this that drove Toby to produce a 3D game.when he arrived at Core they were doing Pre-Saturn stuff (32X etc), no 3D games as programmers there had no exp.with them.

Virtua Fighter was also a huge influence (on the Saturn, not arcade) as after seeing it running, Toby realised what you could achieve by putting 3D characters like those into an Ultima Underworld style game.

Game was originally planned to take 8 months to develop, then crept up to 12 months, finally 18 months and it was this prolonged development period that stopped it being a Saturn exclusive, as they were developing PS1+Saturn versions side by side, so progress was slowed and Saturn version lost the exclusive status it could of had, with Saturn version being released 1st, in a buggy form, Core then fixed bugs on PS1 version and polished it up a little and released that shortly after Saturn version.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: DreamcastRIP on October 01, 2013, 18:25:49 PM
... and the game's main protagonist, the since iconic Lara Croft, was at one point to be named Laura Cruz. FACT!
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: SnakeEyes on October 06, 2013, 19:19:08 PM
Quote from: "nakamura"
Quote from: "The Laird"
Talk of Atari Karts in another thread reminded me of this one:

FICTION: Super Mario Kart was the very first Karting game.

FACT: I present to you Professional Go-Kart Simulator by Zeppelin on the Spectrum

(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/575645-professional-go-kart-simulator-zx-spectrum-screenshot-the.png)  (http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/575648-professional-go-kart-simulator-zx-spectrum-screenshot-taking.png)


Is that really a fact? I can't say I have ever heard anyone say that! Loads of go-kart games on 8bits!

I thought that was a little strange. I have never ever heard anyone claim this.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on October 06, 2013, 20:12:11 PM
It's one of the common Nintendo misconceptions you see like first handheld, first analogue stick, first joypad, first platformer, first motion controls etc.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: SnakeEyes on October 06, 2013, 21:07:58 PM
Quote from: "The Laird"
It's one of the common Nintendo misconceptions you see like first handheld, first analogue stick, first joypad, first platformer, first motion controls etc.

I knew about the rest and have seen them, but who would ever claim mariokart is the first Kart game. Not once have I ever heard that claim.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on October 06, 2013, 21:39:36 PM
I have, many times. But there we go.  :65:
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: TL on October 06, 2013, 21:42:20 PM
Of course then there are the people who talk of games/systems having Mode 7 effects when they were around before SNES Mode 7 even existed.

For example I saw Blue Lightning on the Lynx described as having Mode 7 effects even though it came out in 1989. Not to mention the fact the SNES could never replicate the effects seen in Blue Lightning anyway as it can't do sprite scaling.

But this goes back to the Mode 7 thread on here!
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Rogue Trooper on October 07, 2013, 15:47:54 PM
Quote from: "SnakeEyes"
Quote from: "The Laird"
It's one of the common Nintendo misconceptions you see like first handheld, first analogue stick, first joypad, first platformer, first motion controls etc.

I knew about the rest and have seen them, but who would ever claim mariokart is the first Kart game. Not once have I ever heard that claim.

You visit enough sites, you'll see a lot of claims that folks like Nintendo invented this piece of hardware or produced 1st gamein a now widespread genre, when in reality they just took something others were doing years ago and put a new slant on it.On here we try and seperate the wheat from the chaff as it were when it comes to internet 'wisdom', use wide range of resources, quotes from coders, marketing etc.Give people the 'facts', let them decide for themselves.

Entire reason i created this thread was to dispell some of the internet wisdom.
Title: Re: Fact Behind The Fiction
Post by: Crusto on October 07, 2013, 22:41:01 PM
Ah, it is wise though to say that the NES is a shit console  :25: